ETA 804.192 Quartz - Mondaine Swiss Railways Travel Alarm Pocket Watch

svenedin

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I have a Mondaine quartz pocket watch that is designed as a travel alarm clock (it has a swing out stand). For a long time I used this as my travel alarm clock as it is very small. Nowadays I use my mobile phone as an alarm clock and this watch got forgotten. I would like to be able to use this watch for its intended purpose again.

I popped open the case and replaced the long flat battery with an identical Renata battery. There was a little corrosion on one of the battery contacts but I cleaned this off.

The issue is the watch does not run even with a new battery. If I replace the back the alarm function does work but the watch still does not go.

I know next to nothing about quartz watches except how to change a battery and I have also swapped out a coil and circuit board in the past.

I have tested the new battery and it reads 1.55v as expected out of the watch. In the watch I get 1.55v across the terminals.

I have tested for continuity across what I am assuming to be the two tiny gold coloured contacts at one end of the coil and there is continuity.

I am now at a loss as to what to do next and would appreciate some guidance.

I can get a new movement for this watch for about £60 but the new movements have a date as well which maybe this movement does too but there is no aperture in the dial to show a date. Also I am not sure whether I can install a new movement as I have not worked out how I would get the alarm correct.

IMG_6748.jpeg IMG_6749.jpeg
 

svenedin

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Now I look more closely and compare to pictures of new movements I notice some blue ? corrosion near the coil. Perhaps the old battery leaked more severely than I thought. I have also found a new movement more cheaply for £40. Perhaps I could buy the new movement and rather than swap out the whole movement, replace the circuit board, coil and contacts. This would avoid the need to take the dial and hands off and mess around trying to get the alarm to trigger at exactly the right time. Unless of course it is not difficult to set up the new movement.
 

svenedin

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I have found a data sheet for the movement which is very useful. It shows what tests can be done on the movement. It also says how to get the alarm/hand position correct but refers to the use of a special movement holder which I do not have. I am thinking if I know which are the correct contacts to measure across for working out when the alarm triggers, I do not really need this special movement holder.

 
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glenhead

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I prefer to swap nearly any quartz movement that comes in. I can't justify using my time to work on something I can replace for $60US. Getting new parts for quartz movements is frequently impossible, too, so that plays into it. Cousins currently shows only the movement and stem as does Jules Borel here in the states, so parts are a probably a no-go.

I've seen several watches where a manufacturer uses a movement with a date wheel on it but doesn't put in a window for seeing the date. While I wouldn't call it "common", it sure as heck happens. It doesn't make any difference to the movement or its performance if the date wheel can't be seen. I have removed the date mechanism from a couple of mechanical watches with no date window (both 2824-2s), but that was just to make it easier for the next guy.

If you decide to work on it you don't need the ETA movement holder. Any holder will work. On something like a 7750 a specialized holder can be really nice, but for the vast majority of movements they're a waste of money. The spec sheet indicates that the movement holder supports the center when mounting the hands, so it might be good to mount the hands with the movement on a flat surface, although as long as you don't horse on it any holder will be fine.

I don't know how much experience you have with this stuff, so I'll go beginner-level.

Doing a movement swap is one of those things that seems intimidating until you try it. You'll want some way to protect the dial when you pry the hands off. A heavy plastic bag works nicely. Lay the bag over the dial and use a tool on both sides of the hands to pry them straight up. Just use care not to cut through the bag so you don't mar the dial. My rule with hands and dials is that I only touch hands with plastic (or carbon fiber, now) tweezers and I only touch dials with finger cots on my fingers. Fingerprints make a real mess on them and are difficult to remove. Once you have the hands off it's time to remove the dial. This is an easy one, according to the tech sheet. This is one of those ETA plastic movements where the dial feet just press into holes in the plastic. Find the seam between the dial and movement and gently pry it off.

Press the dial onto the new movement. Pay attention and press on top of the dial feet so they go in straight. According to the spec sheet setting the alarm will be straightforward, especially since you don't have to fret with getting the date to trigger at midnight. Turn the alarm on, turn the hands until it goes off, decree "that's 12-o'clock!" or whatever time you want, and install the alarm hand and hour hand. Test the alarm trigger again, and if the hour hand is dead on mount the minute hand. Test again, and if it's close enough press on the seconds hand. Doing it that way you can just fine-tune one hand at a time. You may have to fiddle with the hands a bit to get them level so they'll all clear each other, especially with the extra hand for the alarm.

I hope this helps.

Glen
 

agemo

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Hi,
The motor module and the alarm mechanism are not removable and for the rest the assembly is very specific.

Here is to help you, but if I were you I would change the complete movement :

ETA 804.192 10½´´´

Amicalement GG
 

svenedin

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Glenhead. Thank you for your extremely helpful reply. I have ordered a new movement from HS Walsh (£40). I do have some rudimentary experience and can disassemble, clean and reassemble a basic mechanical pocket watch but have never attempted a movement swap with a quartz movement. Actually I usually find the hands the most fiddly and difficult bit. I do have the right tools (hand removing levers and a set of plastic tipped hand fitting stakes) but even so its a difficult combination of delicate work and then some considerable force to get the hands back on.

Stephen
 
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svenedin

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Hi,
The motor module and the alarm mechanism are not removable and for the rest the assembly is very specific.

Here is to help you, but if I were you I would change the complete movement :

ETA 804.192 10½´´´

Amicalement GG
Thank you as always Agemo. I will replace the whole movement. Perhaps I am hoping that I may be able to travel again if the Covid situation allows. I want to see my auntie who lives in Basel/Bâle.

Stephen
 

svenedin

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Whilst waiting for the new movement I investigated the old movement (the alarm works but not the time part) to determine where to place the probes of my multimeter to determine the point at which the alarm triggers. The ETA data sheet for this movement DOES NOT say how to determine the alarm trigger point other than by using a special ETA movement holder for this movement.

The procedure I used was:

1) Pull out the alarm stem to "alarm on" position
2) Hold probes of multimeter in continuity mode between the points marked SWA (switch A) and VDD (drain supply) [arrowed on picture]
3) Rotate the setting crown (in hand setting position) clockwise until the multimeter beeps for continuity. This is the alarm trigger point.

Only trouble is you really need 3 hands for the above! It would be far easier with an assistant.

IMG_6749.jpeg
 
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svenedin

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When testing the watch components they should be removed from the movement for testing separately.
This movement needs to be replaced.
Yes I know! The new movement is on order. I simply wanted ascertain how to determine when the alarm goes off so as to make it more straightforward to install the new movement and to avoid messing about with a brand new movement.
 
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svenedin

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New movement arrived this morning and I have now fixed my watch ready for travels again. Hurray! Many thanks for all you help. Just to prove I got it right a short YouTube video of the alarm as well. Just out of interest, the old movement was glued to the dial in such a way as to render the date completely inoperative (picture below). IMG_6778.jpeg

IMG_6780.jpeg IMG_6781.jpeg IMG_6782.jpeg
IMG_6786.jpeg

 
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svenedin

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Piece of cake, right? And how odd that the dial was glued in place. Congratulations!

Glen
Haha. Fiddly actually with 4 hands. I got it close first time but had to take the hands off again to get it spot on. I was expecting that to happen though. Luckily the hands are not that small. Thanks. I’m very pleased it’s fixed.
 

svenedin

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Strange that the date was glued down. I've never seen that work.
I was very puzzled. Wouldn't it stop the watch? I've had the watch from new so I know it has never been messed about with. I initially thought it might have been from the leaking old battery that killed the movement and maybe that is what it is. The white material was hard and it would not come off with isopropyl alcohol.
 

roughbarked

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I was very puzzled. Wouldn't it stop the watch? I've had the watch from new so I know it has never been messed about with. I initially thought it might have been from the leaking old battery that killed the movement and maybe that is what it is. The white material was hard and it would not come off with isopropyl alcohol.
Probably why the watch stopped. People do get all sorts of chemicals other than Dihydrogen monoxide in their watch. Any of these might react with the battery.
 

svenedin

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Probably why the watch stopped. People do get all sorts of chemicals other than Dihydrogen monoxide in their watch. Any of these might react with the battery.
Or maybe it is just whatever the battery leaked. I did leave that watch for years with a flat battery......Dihydrogen monoxide. Haha. No water ever got in this watch! Anyway, it's good to go now for £40 and the help from you and others on this forum. Much appreciated. Stephen.
 
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Al J

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I was very puzzled. Wouldn't it stop the watch? I've had the watch from new so I know it has never been messed about with. I initially thought it might have been from the leaking old battery that killed the movement and maybe that is what it is. The white material was hard and it would not come off with isopropyl alcohol.
I'm guessing they removed the date driving wheel, or at least maybe broke the finger off it, because it would stop the watch...
 

svenedin

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I'm guessing they removed the date driving wheel, or at least maybe broke the finger off it, because it would stop the watch...
They didn’t. I had a play with the old movement out of the watch. It still didn’t work but the date does change by turning the stem. I presume the white gunge is what leaked out of the battery
 

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