Estell's Programme Clock

Chris.K

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I am the new owner of what I think is a complete Estell Programme Clock that was on E-Bay fairly cheap. I'm wondering about the scarcity of these interesting time pieces. Any and all info is welcome as I know nothing about these clocks. Once I physically have the clock I will post more picks. TY. Chris.

EPC-1.jpg EPC-2.jpg EPC-3.jpg EPC-4.jpg EPC-5.jpg
 
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Steven Thornberry

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TY Steven for that link and it was very interesting but unfortunately I am only a registered user and can't access the bulletins. In your estimation would you say these are scarce clocks.?
I generally try to avoid terms like “rare” or “scarce,” but in this case, I would be willing to call the Estell program clocks scarce.
 
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Chris.K

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I generally try to avoid terms like “rare” or “scarce,” but in this case, I would be willing to call the Estell program clocks scarce.
I also avoid saying "rare", as I prefer the term "fairly uncommon" or "slightly scarce". Thank you for your response and I will post any and all pics here for anyone that may be intrigued. Chris.
 
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Bill Stuntz

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I would like to request that you upload any future images as high resolution images without manually resizing them to approximately thumbnail size. The system can display high resolution photos as thumbnails in your posts that will expand to full size to allow us to examine the details. The system can handle photos up to about 5000x5000 pixels & will automatically resize them as needed for MB storage/display. Please let the system do its job instead of wasting your time/effort resizing them before uploading. By all means crop them as necessary, but please don't reduce the resolution.
 
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Chris.K

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I would like to request that you upload any future images as high resolution images without manually resizing them to approximately thumbnail size. The system can display high resolution photos as thumbnails in your posts that will expand to full size to allow us to examine the details. The system can handle photos up to about 5000x5000 pixels & will automatically resize them as needed for MB storage/display. Please let the system do its job instead of wasting your time/effort resizing them before uploading. By all means crop them as necessary, but please don't reduce the resolution.
I posted the pics from the seller of the clock as I do not have it yet. Once it is delivered I will post my pics here. Thank you for the advice about the system rez and capabilities. I will just be happy to get the clock and will seek advice on how to clean and or restore it. TY.. Chris..
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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I am the new owner of what I think is a complete Estell Programme Clock that was on E-Bay fairly cheap. I'm wondering about the scarcity of these interesting time pieces. Any and all info is welcome as I know nothing about these clocks. Once I physically have the clock I will post more picks. TY. Chris.

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Nice find!

Your clock is very similar to the example I posted in the aforementioned thread. Looks pretty complete with some wear and tear. More pix will help.

I believe a piece of tin was once present which slid into the frame on the back of the clock to cover the sun wheel.

There may have also been a reverse decorated dial surround.

Yes, I would call it a scarce clock. I haven't seen many examples, especially complete ones, and I have been collecting for a while.
That sun wheel is often removed. Might have jammed things up? Didn't work right? The average repair person/clock home hobbiest/tinkerer didn't know what to make of it and just removed it?

Sadly, scarcity or rarity don't necessarily translate into high price. Furthermore, I would bet most people who saw that clock on eBay had no idea why it is a desirable clock.

Yes, you can't access the Bulletin articles unless you're a NAWCC member. So why not become a member?

RM
 
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PatH

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Yes, you can't access the Bulletin articles unless you're a NAWCC member. So why not become a member?
Not to derail the thread, but while we await additional pictures of this scarce clock, I'll give a little encouragement for anyone who is considering joining the NAWCC. There is a special first-time membership available that includes digital Bulletins. It is $52 for the first year. It's unbelievable how much information is available through the online Bulletin articles and supplements, not to mention the other benefits of membership
link to join - NAWCC Membership Application
list of benefits - Join - National Association of Watch & Clock Collectors, Inc.. One of the often overlooked benefits is free or reduced admission to a wide variety of ASTC (Association of Science and Technology) museums and science centers. More information is included at the link above.
 

Chris.K

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Not to derail the thread, but while we await additional pictures of this scarce clock, I'll give a little encouragement for anyone who is considering joining the NAWCC. There is a special first-time membership available that includes digital Bulletins. It is $52 for the first year. It's unbelievable how much information is available through the online Bulletin articles and supplements, not to mention the other benefits of membership
link to join - NAWCC Membership Application
list of benefits - Join - National Association of Watch & Clock Collectors, Inc.. One of the often overlooked benefits is free or reduced admission to a wide variety of ASTC (Association of Science and Technology) museums and science centers. More information is included at the link above.
TY Pat for the invite and what is funny is that I was talking to my wife about the very same thing. Next time I have a bit of extra money I will join. Chris
 
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Chris.K

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I'm getting antsy waiting for my clock to arrive. I feel like I'm 8 years old again waiting for the "Sea Monkeys" I ordered from the back page of my Batman comic book..
 

Chris.K

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Well the Estell made it here in one piece and was going nuts as the seller did not secure the crutch so I had to whip up a suspension spring to stop any damage for it going unbridled and added the bob closest to regulate it out. It is currently running but will start on it later. For those who have shown interest in this time piece feel free to let me know what you would like to see. TY.. Chris..
 
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PatH

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Better than sea monkeys?:)
 
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Chris.K

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I have removed the works and getting ready to U/S clean them and get them happy again. As you can see in the pics an interesting repair of the main spring that interferes with getting a clamp on. This movement will be a "first" for me to work on as it is a hybrid resting in between a 8-day time only movement and a 8-day/hour strike only movement. I will replace both main springs but keep the original ones as I do not trust the integrity of the repair job. It is interesting to note that the movement looks and has the "strike components" they are independent of the time train meaning you can move the minute hand round and round and it will not strike unless you "tell" it to do so by moving a "finger" to the in position to trip the strike disconnect.

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rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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I have removed the works and getting ready to U/S clean them and get them happy again. As you can see in the pics an interesting repair of the main spring that interferes with getting a clamp on. This movement will be a "first" for me to work on as it is a hybrid resting in between a 8-day time only movement and a 8-day/hour strike only movement. I will replace both main springs but keep the original ones as I do not trust the integrity of the repair job. It is interesting to note that the movement looks and has the "strike components" they are independent of the time train meaning you can move the minute hand round and round and it will not strike unless you "tell" it to do so by moving a "finger" to the in position to trip the strike disconnect.

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Yes, that's the idea. You set the time for the reminders.

Why replace the main springs?

Are they damaged?

RM
 

Chris.K

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Now that I'm in the repair phase, if it isn't too much trouble, I would like to ask an Admin to put this thread into the repair section to avoid confusion and such. Thank you.. Chris
 

Steven Thornberry

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Now that I'm in the repair phase, if it isn't too much trouble, I would like to ask an Admin to put this thread into the repair section to avoid confusion and such. Thank you.. Chris
Actually, I recommend that you start a new thread in the repair forum and leave this one here for the historical interest, which might be overlooked in the repair forum. Some repetition of what you have already posted here is not out of place.
 
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Chris.K

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Actually, I recommend that you start a new thread in the repair forum and leave this one here for the historical interest, which might be overlooked in the repair forum. Some repetition of what you have already posted here is not out of place.
Will do Steven and thank you for the direction.
 

Chris.K

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Here is the second pass cleaning of the program wheel before and after. The third pic is of the broken "finger" that I am contemplating on how to fix. I was thinking about trying to extract the broke nib and try using a pin vice to drill a small hole and insert a new "finger" made out of a new verge crutch so its brass instead of the black metal one that was soldered onto the inner circle. Any and all ideas on this are welcome. Keep in mind that my tools are from 1100 B.C. , LOL.

20220819_120550.jpg 20220907_124458.jpg broke.jpg
 

Chris.K

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Here is the second pass cleaning of the program wheel before and after. The third pic is of the broken "finger" that I am contemplating on how to fix. I was thinking about trying to extract the broke nib and try using a pin vice to drill a small hole and insert a new "finger" made out of a new verge crutch so its brass instead of the black metal one that was soldered onto the inner circle. Any and all ideas on this are welcome. Keep in mind that my tools are from 1100 B.C. , LOL.

View attachment 725003 View attachment 725004 View attachment 725005
I could not find the edit button but after posting this hind sight 20/20 I will have to mic the other "fingers" and order the proper diameter brass stock. I found myself taking the easy road instead of the longer right one..
 

Chris.K

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While prepping the case for a date with warm Murphy's Oil Soap bath I seen this interesting "tool" wedged behind the large bell in the case. I'm wondering if this is an original accessory to manipulate the program "fingers" or just a pivot tool left in after a servicing. If it is original to the clock this accessory may be more uncommon than the clock. Oh well, making slow progress but will update key info. Chris..

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Chris.K

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Help with this line of thinking. In regards to the upper door glass, I figure that due to the uncommon nature of this time piece it would be hard at best to find original Estell's glass. Due to the connection of Jerome and Palmeroy with Estell I have purchased a clock with the period dial surround tablet for the upper door. Would this be an acceptable addition to the Estell ? The present door glass is clear modern glass with no waves. Thank you.. Chris.
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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While prepping the case for a date with warm Murphy's Oil Soap bath I seen this interesting "tool" wedged behind the large bell in the case. I'm wondering if this is an original accessory to manipulate the program "fingers" or just a pivot tool left in after a servicing. If it is original to the clock this accessory may be more uncommon than the clock. Oh well, making slow progress but will update key info. Chris..

View attachment 725454
Interesting find.

See this article:

251_446.pdf (nawcc.org)

Scroll down to page 450 and see the reproduction of the ad for the wall model. Within that are the instructions for setting the clock. Note it says, "use the little wire hook to move the springs". I think you may have found that "little wire hook".

Also see posting #9 on this thread:

Samuel Estell's "Programme Clock" | NAWCC Forums

I have posted a close up of what remains of the label. It too mentions "the small wire hook" to set the clock.

The clock is veneered using hide glue which may not tolerate contact with water. Old shellac can become cloudy when in contact with water. Might consider using something else to clean the case, if that's necessary.

Help with this line of thinking. In regards to the upper door glass, I figure that due to the uncommon nature of this time piece it would be hard at best to find original Estell's glass. Due to the connection of Jerome and Palmeroy with Estell I have purchased a clock with the period dial surround tablet for the upper door. Would this be an acceptable addition to the Estell ? The present door glass is clear modern glass with no waves. Thank you.. Chris.
The subject clock of this thread was a later lower priced version of the Estell. It shared an upper glass with a reverse decorated dial surround with more common New Haven shelf clocks with a similar case design. Again, see posting #9 on this thread:

Samuel Estell's "Programme Clock" | NAWCC Forums

That example retains its original upper glass. By the way, the name is Pomeroy.

I would suggest looking at the articles linked to and the above thread for more information about your clock.

RM
 

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