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Escape Wheel Tooth Pliers

Scottie-TX

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Just one tooth; Just ONE measly (no BONG - wasn't mumps or chicken pox), but one measly tooth had one of ARJAY's shark infestations.
As previously, I get out the same pair of pliers that never works and SURPRISE! ( they don't work on this tooth neither) No surprise.
I'm gonna make me a plier that WILL - CAN straighten a tooth.
I know. You're gonna tell me I've reinvented the wheel again. Go ahead. I'm immune now.
But I did. I got the most gnarly, forlorn, forsaken pair of pliers that has languished deep in the bowels of a forgotten toolbox for eons. Filthy, painted, tips damaged where my electrical talents failed again - my candidate pliers.
Then I grabbed a piece of card stock and began making tooth patterns - I wanted a jaw opening angle that would be VERY close to my tooth patient. I'd keep comparing my pattern to the tooth until one satisfied me.
 

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Scottie-TX

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See, that's the problem I always have with common pliers; Their angle is too ACUTE and when applied to the tooth, NEVER address or come close to the tip that needs attention. They're ALWAYS squeezing the ROOT of the tooth.
So; DREML tool in hand, using plier handles as a steady rest and holding DREML flat to it's case, horizontal - formed the tips and ground the angle close as possible to the tips. Came out pretty decent.
Flattened that liddle ARJAY infection like a dream. Tooth LOOKS perfect - works perfect.
Now I have no idea how many more other teeth it will fit but I do know it will fit ANY tooth better than before it was ground!
Go ahead now.
Parade's almost over.
Bring on the reign.
 

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leeinv66

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Neat idea Scottie! I have always used pliers with smooth jaws. I squeeze and pulling back at the same time. But I can see the advantage in the ones you have made. They would give you much more control.

Cheers
Peter
 

David Robertson

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Very clever Scottie (but we have come to expect no less)... I think I'll make some..

Thanks...
 

bangster

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Novel concept...a pair of pliers that won't close all the way. I own several, but MINE weren't deformed on purpose. They evolved over long periods of abuse. Nice to see that Tex has speeded up the process.

bangster
 

David Robertson

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PaulFaf said:
Get a Webster :cool:
The Webster has its place... the pair of pliers has its place.. one doesn't necessarily replace the other.
 

David Robertson

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PaulFaf said:
David do you own or have you used an Webster Escape Wheel tooth straightner?
Yes Paul... I recently bought one... and have, admittedly, used it only a few times and on very small, delicate escape wheels. I really like it and for an e-wheel that has a lot of damage and distortion, there is nothing like it.

It does take some time to get set up correctly for each wheel so if only one two wheels has a obvious problem, then tweaking it with a pair of pliers will probably be just as good and a lot quicker.

Do you have a different experience or opinion?

I'd really like to hear other thoughts on the Webster's use..

Thanks for bringing it up.
 

David Robertson

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inbeat said:
How about a comparison of the cost of a Webster and a pair of beat up crappy pliers?
Webster - $178

Beat up pliers - $priceless

_____________________________________________________

Seriously.. the two tools are not equivalent.. they should not be compared. They have overlapping functions but not the same functions.

For instance... you can't take each and every bent escape wheel tooth to exactly the same angle from the wheel hub with only pliers.. on the other hand, you can't tighten bolts on your lawn mower with the Webster!!
 

PaulFaf

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Jun 18, 2007
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Ok David

I'll give you that one.

Scottie at least solder some brass strips in that thing.
 

inbeat

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"Done Right"....
The point was that not everyone on the board can afford all the "right" tools. If they could, they might not see the value if they use them only on a rare occasion. I am sure you could take it to the limit on each thread if you want to go there. Scottie is not a professional repair shop and only showed how he used his noggin to fix a problem.....I don't have a Webster....could afford it....don't want it.. Glad that others find value and use it.......but again, just another duffer......
And as an aside, very glad you have one and know how to use it if I am taking my mvt to you to fix whatever I screw up.....ha....
 

PaulFaf

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Wow if you guys are gona play like that I'm gona take my Webster and go home.:(

And I'm takin my smooth jaw brass pliers too!:eek:
 

leeinv66

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Hey Paul and David, a picture and a run down on how this Webster beast works would be handy for us duffers (or is it just me:)) that haven't a clue what you are talking about would be great!

Cheers
Pee-Tah
 

David Robertson

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Here is a picture.. the best one I could find online.

The escape wheel is mounted between the runners and the pliers adjusted via the various articulating arms to get the top jaw of the pliers parallel to the top of a good escape wheel tooth... and protruding into the space bwtween teeth til it just touched the wheel rim. Then everything is tightened up and the relationship of the pliers to the wheel is fixed.

Then the pliers are hinged out of the way and the wheel rotated to a bad tooth.

Then the handles of the pliers are squeezed against the tooth.. if there is an angle correction necessary, this will do it because it is squezing at the base of the tooth. Then the third handle.. the one that curves.. is squeezed.. this causes the bottom tooth to move back along the sloping fce of the escape wheel tooth while holding pressure on the tooth with the two "normal" plier handles. This squeezes the tooth and stretches it a bit.

This last action is what you are doing when you tease the tooth with pliers.. the difference is that the position of the pliers to the wheel is fixed for each tooth.

Not easy to describe.. also not that easy to set up.. but when set it will get things right.
 

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leeinv66

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Thanks David! Now I understand why you said that for a single tooth pliers would be quicker. It's a great looking piece of equipment, but for now I think I will stick to my pliers:)

Cheers
Peter
 

Scottie-TX

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Thanks DR;
Very much what I imagined - a plier on a fixture that could make controlled and predictable corrections - straighten the tooth and at the same time, maintain tooth spacing in one operation.
PAUL!
Paul; What about these brass jawz? Why should I cover them with brass? They are no longer ribbed.
 

glr1109

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This will do English tall case escapes as well as French?

The gear in the photo shows a warning wheel. Will this do other gears other than escapes?

greg
 

PaulFaf

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No longer ribbed. Ok it looked like the serrations were intact.

Scottie tell me if I am wrong. Your plan is to pinch the tooth and be on your way? I may be assuming, but that is what the relief you cut to form the one tooth your working on tells me. If that's the case you can only bend the straingt edge. The relieved edge will no longer have contact if there is a cupping problem.


A far as pliers go
Brass on Brass = smaller margin for error on the handler

Steel on Brass = larger margin

Heavy steel pliers = less feel of the work being done (Bull in China shop syndrome = Hillbilly dentistry)

Light brass pliers = more feel of the work being done


1109
As far as the pic goes the Straightner wont fix a warning wheel. I guess you are smarter than the photographer

David gave a great description of the Webster setup steps. The third is the key. I'll add the wheel will need to be topped off after the operation.

I am sure the Library has Tascione Clock repair Course 4 . This tape will show the Webster in action.

The Webster will pay for itself by save # 3. In my opinion the best way to straighten bent E.W. teeth. Even if I notice one bent tooth I'll go thru the entire wheel. I usually find more.

Will it come out perfect on the Time-Trax No.
 

David Robertson

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glr1109 said:
This will do English tall case escapes as well as French?

The gear in the photo shows a warning wheel. Will this do other gears other than escapes?

greg
Greg.. sorry for the photo.. it was the only one I could find online without having to go set mine up and take a picture.

The tool is only for escape wheel teeth. As far as I know it will do all types.. the larger ones are easier to set up.
 

Scottie-TX

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Thanks PAUL on your thoughts RE brass. Makes sense.
But about the pliers I shaped; I don't understand your reply as to their application - use-ability:
If that's the case you can only bend the straingt edge. The relieved edge will no longer have contact if there is a cupping problem.
Can you explain your view a liddle more. We all know I'ma liddle dense.
(THANKS)
 

harold bain

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I tried doing an escapewheel with my Webster, but it wouldn't fit in the chuck:?|
I guess I didn't get the right attachments. But it still works good on mainsprings.
The pictured Webster looks like it should also polish pivots, and make your coffee in the morning.:thumb:
 

RJSoftware

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Apr 15, 2005
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Dang me computer's slow, stupid viruses. Gotta quit visitin those special sites...

So....!

The Webster can stretch the tooth too...!

Cool..!

It must put some pretty good grip on the tooth edges to do that. That could come in useful, seeing as shorty is the culprit.

I think Scottie has a good ideal for shaping. The cupped area should just form to the pliar edges.

Also, I was thinking that I would ground down pliar tips to thicker pliar tips to thicker area, that way user could squeeze harder.

What I mean by this is the very tips on allot of my needle nose don't really have enough meat to put some umph on it. A little more thickness there and you might have a good forming pliars.

Maybe even grind outside edges of pliars so they could fit.

Have to try it Scottie, seems like a good idea.

(took me 15 minutes to type this, stupid viruses, mouse jumpin arround, popups. hate computers..)
RJ
 

Tony Ambruso

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RJSoftware said:
Dang me computer's slow, stupid viruses. Gotta quit visitin those special sites...

(took me 15 minutes to type this, stupid viruses, mouse jumpin arround, popups. hate computers..)
RJ
Hey, RJ, get yourself a decent firewall program to go with those pliers, and your computer worries will lessen, especially if you stay off those "special sites." :clap:
 

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