Escape wheel loose on pinion... how it fix it.

tickytocky

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Back again. Same little Black Forest toy clock. Noticed the escape wheel has moved from where it should be in the middle of the escapement. The wheel is actually loose. I peened the center hole of the wheel a bit and replaced it on the pinion... but it is till a bit loose. Just a matter of time before it slips or moves again. Any tricks? I know soldering it lightly would solve the problem for me... but it leaves a bad taste. Opinions? The wheel is now where it should be again... just want it tight. Thanks!
 

R. Croswell

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JB-Weld might taste a little better better than solder. You can use one of the Loctite retaining compounds like Loctite 609 (remove the EW first). If you remove the EW from the arbor and stake the opening and press it back on it should be OK. You could also knurl the arbor and press the EW back on.

RC
 

tickytocky

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JB-Weld might taste a little better better than solder. You can use one of the Loctite retaining compounds like Loctite 609 (remove the EW first). If you remove the EW from the arbor and stake the opening and press it back on it should be OK. You could also knurl the arbor and press the EW back on.

RC
Thanks! But... here comes the dumb question. I am a car/motorcycle repair person and not actually a clock maker. But clocks are a good substitute for me on a cold, dark and wet winter evening. Clocks are also mechanical. I can take anything apart and get it working again but some of these profession specific terms in this field have me stumped. Stake? Closing the hole a bit with a ball peen? Knurling, not in my capacity as I own no lathe. And I don't yet have a press for such tiny things. JB Weld... how would it have been fixed a hundred years ago, though? Such things as JB Weld didn't exist back then. The wheel does have to be tight, no question. If it spins... it will make a mess of the "going train". See....I have a lot still to learn...it'll come gradually. But with at least 40 clocks in boxes and all about now annoying the wife... I will figure it out fast :)
 

tickytocky

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Back again.. Found out what staking is... makes now sense. Looked in ebay... got an old, pre-war Boley set with all in order and only two pieces missing. It looks like the box is labeled and you can then order whatever it was if you wish. I also talked to a watchmaker friend, he looked at ebay and said... go for it... at that price... you can't go wrong. So... I will "stake" the escapment wheel and my friend will help me and show me how... then all is fine. Thanks for the help! And such a set... looks like more than one clock will need to use it... Thanks! PS... I am enjoying all this. Something new to learn... at 70 lol
 

MuseChaser

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Two questions from a fellow new-to-the-game of clock repair...

1. When it was said that a wheel was "loose on the pinion," should the correct term have been "arbor" instead of "pinion?" I thought a pinion was a solid gear, usually taller than wide (as opposed to a thin wheel gear) on an arbor. Not finding fault...just trying to learn the correct terminology myself.

2. I've come across solder in places it doesn't belong in a few clocks I've worked on now and I hate it especially when it's used out of laziness rather than doing a possible and proper repair, but at least it's reversible. JBWeld isn't, and although I've used it to repair some pot metal (spelt?) case parts, I'd use it on a movement only as a complete last resort. Always willing to have my mind changed if I'm wrong about that.
 

SuffolkM

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Yes, arbor is correct. The arbor is the long thin shaft on which wheels, gears, pinions, cams etc. are fitted. Pinion Arbor! ends are pivots, which are supported in the pivot holes of the front and back plates.
 
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shutterbug

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I haven't heard the term "pinion ends" before. Pinion gears are the small ones that contact the teeth on the large gear. They can be solid or made up of wires instead of teeth. Those are called Lantern Pinions, and the wires called Trundles.
 
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R. Croswell

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You do not need a lathe to knurl this arbor. You can knurl the arbor by laying it on an anvil or thick flat piece of of steel. Then mark the place where the escape wheel will go. Now get a file that is about 1/8" thick and place the edge of file across the arbor and strike the opposite edge of the file with a mallet. Rotate the arbor until it is knurled all the way around. The arbor is mild steel and the file teeth will impress marks on (knurl) the arbor. The escape wheel can be pressed on and the knurling will act somewhat like a spline to grip the escape wheel. The raised area of the knurl will slightly increase the diameter of the arbor and you will have a tight and mostly invisible repair. This is, in my opinion, the preferred method of repair.

You mentioned solder, which suggested that you were considering alternative methods to just make it work and not necessarily create an invisible professional repair. Loctite 609 would accomplish the same thing but cost more. Staking and peening will work but will leave visible marks that some find objectionable.

RC
 

SuffolkM

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Shutterbug, the term 'pinion ends' is a really badly timed typo. I was trying to say that when you get to the end of an arbor, that's the pivot. Editing now! ;-)
 

shutterbug

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Those little striker wheels in cigarette lighters make nice knurlers too.
 

tickytocky

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Sorry guys. If I knew what I was talking about, I'd not be asking and making mistakes like that. ;-) And... to boot, half the info I have learned over the years about the clocks was in German and figuring out what is called what in which language gets a bit sticky sometimes :) It gets mixed up. Arbor... Arbor. Pinion...Pinion. I'm trying guys. That small clock... it will get fixed somehow properly. A nice Staker set I will be getting too. Old... but who cares if it works. The watchmaker will help me. He is actually pleased someone is asking for help. He enjoyed looking at the clocks I have found to work on and started telling me stories. He learned at 16 in the 60's at a clock repair firm and spent over 50 years repairing the big clocks so he likely knows what to do. Now he works on Acutrons only. Keeping busy in retirement.
PS... that tip about a file and knurling... I will remember that. And as to solder... if I was sure I just wanted it to work I'd maybe have done that and not asked. But since all of you are being so nice as to help me... I asked because I wanted to do it the right way. Finding a few botched repairs myself over the years, makes me cautious about doing the same sort of half-assed things. I have seen all sorts of things over the years. The repairs work... but you will never get them apart if something that was originally bolted, got welded shut by someone. Buy an old car or motorbike... you will see some amazing repairs some one who had a welder did... Thanks!
 

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