Most visitors online was 4107 , on 14 Jan 2023
-
Upcoming updates
Over the next couple of weeks we will be performing software updates on the forum. These will be completed in small steps as we upgrade individual software addons. You might occasionally see a maintenance message that will last a few minutes at most.
If we anticipate an update will take more than a few minutes, we'll put up a notice with estimated time.
Thank you!
Escape wheel installed backwards?
- Thread starter Altashot
- Start date
I also noticed there is a big tooth count difference between the CNC e-wheel and the original . wouldn't this mess the beat up? even if it was flipped . 
!!
its only about 9 teeth just a quick count. I think that it needs a replacement .
!!its only about 9 teeth just a quick count. I think that it needs a replacement .
Hello Altashot,
Which Pequegnat drop octagon is it? Maybe someone can get you an EW tooth count.
Jim
Which Pequegnat drop octagon is it? Maybe someone can get you an EW tooth count.
Jim
Which way does it run? That will give you a definite answer.
I'd say that it's the 'scape wheel that's been swapped, as the anchor looks like an original one.
I'd say that it's the 'scape wheel that's been swapped, as the anchor looks like an original one.
I assume the black arrow in the picture in the first post indicates the way the EW rotates.
Usually doing something wrong is caused by a lack of effort.
There was an amazing amount of effort put into doing something wrong, in this case.
There was an amazing amount of effort put into doing something wrong, in this case.
Looking at this whole thing from a scientific perspective. I think someone wanted a longer pendulum to replace a short drop . And forgot to reset set arm angles from 45deg to the new tooth angle which is nearer 55deg . By eye ball as the first post picture is not really possible to get exact.
If person is able to make a new escapement. Must be a minor job just to correct the arm angles . Ie straighten the top & reset bottom to match angle lock .
Theory vs practical.
If person is able to make a new escapement. Must be a minor job just to correct the arm angles . Ie straighten the top & reset bottom to match angle lock .
Theory vs practical.
Looking at this whole thing from a scientific perspective. I think someone wanted a longer pendulum to replace a short drop . And forgot to reset set arm angles from 45deg to the new tooth angle which is nearer 55deg . By eye ball as the first post picture is not really possible to get exact.
If person is able to make a new escapement. Must be a minor job just to correct the arm angles . Ie straighten the top & reset bottom to match angle lock .
Theory vs practical.
If person is able to make a new escapement. Must be a minor job just to correct the arm angles . Ie straighten the top & reset bottom to match angle lock .
Theory vs practical.
Will it keep time when it's running now?
If so, that is the right number of teeth, just flip the wheel, or seek out another wheel with the same number of teeth.
That wheel is on there good. You will need a lathe to do a good job of this.
Willie X
If so, that is the right number of teeth, just flip the wheel, or seek out another wheel with the same number of teeth.
That wheel is on there good. You will need a lathe to do a good job of this.
Willie X
It helps to confirm that the movement has a recoil escapement and that the OP's escape wheel is almost surely something that someone made and that it is on upside down for this escapement. For the movement shown in this picture, [Raymond's post #7] the lift angle of the of the pallets, especially the entrance pallet, are wrong. I expect that this movement does not run well, if it runs at all.
We still do not know just what the person who modified the movement shown in post #1 was trying to accomplish. Looks like about 4 fewer teeth so with all else being equal it will require a longer pendulum. What concerns me is that whoever made that escape wheel did a pretty neat job. I would expect someone with that skill level to not simply make a mistake and mount the wheel backward. In post #6 Willie said "I would be tempted to make a strip dead beat pallet, rather than change (or flip) that E-wheel". I can't help wondering if perhaps that was the reason to mounting the new escape wheel the way it is? Verges frequently get lost and replaced with whatever is handy. Perhaps a strip deadbeat or half-deadbeat verge got lost, or just never got made and someone stuck a recoil verge on to make it complete for sale. Either way, to make it a reliable runner, the ew should be flipped, or that recoil verge should be replaced with a deadbeat type (not both).
RC
If it runs with that escape wheel, wouldn’t it run much faster with the original pendulum? Perhaps they were trying to put the movement in a different case so the pendulum length would fit the case.
Thank you for all the replies.
It is indeed the Brandon model.
It was given to my client in 2018 and it ran until a little while ago. He explained that it ran fine and kept time but suddenly developed sort of a double tick and became unreliable, sometimes running for a few days or only for a few minutes.
I experienced the double tick sound. It sounded like this: Tick-a-tick tock, tick-a-tick tock, tick-a-tick tock...
The second tick was produced by the exit pallet hitting the back of the last escaped tooth, it was badly out of beat. I don't know how it went out on its own but I had to tilt it quite a bit to make it sound in beat.
I adjusted the beat and now it runs with a normal tick tock sound and may I say, quite well, with a nice wide swing and adequate over swing.
Not too sure where to go with this one. It runs as it is, and keeps time well.
I do have a lathe and the abilities to reverse the wheel or make a new verge but as weird as this may seem, someone did indeed go through a lot
of effort, whether by replacing the escape wheel, or the verge, or both to make it work as well as it does. It appears that the entry pallet angle has been altered as there are signs that it has been heated. I agree that this wheel is a replacement and as was stated earlier, staked quite well, although not pretty, but solidly. The overall condition is acceptable, some bushings were replaced but they look good. The pallets were polished to a mirror finish, the spring is lubricated as well as all the pivots with the proper amount of oil. Whoever did this, in my opinion, knew what they were doing and had adequate skills to perform the repairs well. It's been running like this for at least 4-5 years.
That being said, I'm going to look through my verges and try a few different ones but I think the right thing to do is to reverse that wheel,
it's just wrong that way.
The exit pallet is so close to making contact with the back of the teeth and to entry one receives no impulse the way it is right now.
Strange indeed...
It is indeed the Brandon model.
It was given to my client in 2018 and it ran until a little while ago. He explained that it ran fine and kept time but suddenly developed sort of a double tick and became unreliable, sometimes running for a few days or only for a few minutes.
I experienced the double tick sound. It sounded like this: Tick-a-tick tock, tick-a-tick tock, tick-a-tick tock...
The second tick was produced by the exit pallet hitting the back of the last escaped tooth, it was badly out of beat. I don't know how it went out on its own but I had to tilt it quite a bit to make it sound in beat.
I adjusted the beat and now it runs with a normal tick tock sound and may I say, quite well, with a nice wide swing and adequate over swing.
Not too sure where to go with this one. It runs as it is, and keeps time well.
I do have a lathe and the abilities to reverse the wheel or make a new verge but as weird as this may seem, someone did indeed go through a lot
of effort, whether by replacing the escape wheel, or the verge, or both to make it work as well as it does. It appears that the entry pallet angle has been altered as there are signs that it has been heated. I agree that this wheel is a replacement and as was stated earlier, staked quite well, although not pretty, but solidly. The overall condition is acceptable, some bushings were replaced but they look good. The pallets were polished to a mirror finish, the spring is lubricated as well as all the pivots with the proper amount of oil. Whoever did this, in my opinion, knew what they were doing and had adequate skills to perform the repairs well. It's been running like this for at least 4-5 years.
That being said, I'm going to look through my verges and try a few different ones but I think the right thing to do is to reverse that wheel,
it's just wrong that way.
The exit pallet is so close to making contact with the back of the teeth and to entry one receives no impulse the way it is right now.
Strange indeed...
I've seen similar cases. The clocks barely ran but did run week to week and keep time. One was an EN Welch, which had an escape wheel made like a backwards pin pallet escape wheel The recoil pallets slid on the points only, just like the clock in question.
I would bet that flipping the wheel will improve the pendulum action and slow the rate by a small amount.
BUT, if it's not keeping time in that case now (with a good pendulum placement) all bets are off and Alta will have to rethink the 'tooth count' issue from square one.
Willie X
I would bet that flipping the wheel will improve the pendulum action and slow the rate by a small amount.
BUT, if it's not keeping time in that case now (with a good pendulum placement) all bets are off and Alta will have to rethink the 'tooth count' issue from square one.
Willie X
Its running but you have almost no lock on the entrance pallet and the drops are very uneven and/or it is very put of beat.
If it will run for 12 hours and stay within a minute or two, that is the information you need. Just oil it and move the bottom of the case a bit to make the beat better. Willie X
It runs, and even has recoil. Amazing!
I guess you never know what will work if you don't experiment.
You are getting recoil on the exit only, and I'd wager that it's skipping a tooth occasionally on the entrance, which would account for the poor time keeping.
Return it as is. Without the hands and face it looks cool then no one will notice it runs fast . .. (joke)
Know Your NAWCC Forums Rules!
RULES & GUIDELINES
RULES & GUIDELINES
Staff online
-
Tom McIntyreTechnical Admin
-
Steven ThornberryUser Administrator
Forum statistics
- Threads
- 180,059
- Messages
- 1,570,759
- Members
- 54,364
- Latest member
- clockminded
- Encyclopedia Pages
- 911
- Total wiki contributions
- 3,090
- Last edit
- How To Open A Pocket Watch Case by Kent