ERROR - Being Logged Off

Discussion in 'Forums Help & Notices' started by Dick C, Sep 30, 2017.

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  1. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Since the implementation of the new message board, after signing on and looking at new posts, once and a while I have been logged off. I have been spending some time attempting to duplicate the conditions under which this does happen and have been able to do so. The following show the steps taken to duplicate the condition on my Windows 8.1, IE11 based system. I have attempted to duplicate this with Firefox and Chrome without success. Two screen captures are shown as well, the first being my starting point. Note that in this example I had enough new posts to cover 3 pages and the next photo shows that when the error occurs I have 4 pages shown.

    A. Here are the steps by which I can duplicate the scenario:

    Clear all caches

    Log In - Do Not check the stay logged in box

    Hover over FORUMS

    Click on New Posts (in the upper left or at the end of the list the number of pages of new posts will be shown)

    Click on 2

    Click on 1

    Click on 2

    Continue this toggling until it fails...I have found that it does fail between 6 and 9 toggles. One can also click between the pages and Previous or Next and it will ultimately fail. I am now logged out. The web page now shows that there are 4 pages of New Posts.

    B. First and last Captures: See thumbnails


    C. Please note that if during logon I do click on the Stay Logged On box I can not make this fail.
    It is interesting that if after each step I take a look at the cookies involved it appears that when I toggle cookies is changed.

    Can anyone else duplicate this behavior?

    P.S. This is driving me crazy.....no, I do not normally toggle back and forth; however, sometimes will go to Next or to a Page and go to Previous and/or to a page and if done enough get logged off. And yes, I do not want to keep Stay Logged On checked as I remove cookies when I leave a session.

    New Post Failure Begin.jpg New Posts Failure End.jpg
     
  2. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Dick, clearly this needs to be addressed, but if you click the stay logged in button, it only works if you do not subsequently log off. The log off action will clear your cookies and the stay logged in request.

    Stay logged in means "keep me logged in even if I close my browser."
     
  3. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    If I close my browser and clear my cookies either using Internet Options and/or CCleaner then I believe I will not stay logged in if I go back to the message board.

    Is than not correct.

    I do clear them....never leave info in cookies that other software can reach.
     
  4. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I may be missing something. If you want to scrub the computer each time you close your browser, then you cannot expect anything to be remembered such as whether you checked the keep me logged in box.

    You reported a problem in post 1 that used the logged in state to prevent problems with with toggling the new posts list between pages. I was confused and thought you were interested in the stay logged on feature. You were just using that as a way of describing the broken behavior.

    If my understanding is correct, I will try to duplicate it with Windows 10 and Edge and report it to XenForo. I do not have your configuration available.
     
  5. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
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    That might be overkill. I'm paranoid about viruses, trojans, spyware, etc. and immediately install security updates to plug any new holes that might allow hackers to access my private data. AFAIK, cookies are designed to be inaccessible to anyone other than the site that created the cookie - unless your computer is infected with something. Do you have information that says otherwise?
     
  6. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I tried what I believe you are describing. I opened Edge and cleared history. Then I opened the message board and logged in as Jane Tester an NAWCC Member. I clicked on the Forum drop down and selected New Posts. When the list displayed, it was 5 pages and I toggled back and forth between 1 and 2 about 15 times and then I did the same between 2 and 3 another 15 times with nothing happening.

    I then switched Edge to IE11 but I am not sure that is the same as "real" IE11. In any case the results were the same.

    Can we just chalk this up as an interesting curiosity, or do you feel it needs to be fixed. I suspect I will have a hard time getting the XenForo developers to care.
     
  7. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    I do not care about the Stay Logged On box...always leave it blank.

    I run Norton software and periodically scan my system with Norton and other software so I believe it is virus free...I have no other indications otherwise.

    If someone else is running 8.1 and IE11 it would be helpful if they could run the test.

    You might want to report it to XenForo as they might see it again...I do not understand why it works when the Stay Logged On is checked. That leads me to believe that the software is checking cookies under some circumstance and just ensuring that I am logged on. Perhaps their software is making a check each time it is toggled and after a number of iterations loses its way.

    Thanks
    Dick

    P.S. I spent a good amount of years busting code in operating systems so this does intrigue me. I can work around it.
     
  8. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
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    Dick, are you aware of any specific vulnerabilities or instances where cookies have been abused by sites other than the site that created/saved the cookie? I generally don't clear cookies, and for the most part find them to be useful when sites remember me and configure themselves to match my preferences.

    I don't claim to be a security expert, but I ALWAYS run antimalware software, and occasionally use other products to cross-check that the one I use (MalwareBytes) hasn't missed anything. As a PC tech, I've de-gunked a BUNCH of PC's when users have been infected with something. I haven't counted, but I'm SURE it's well over 100. And I've had to repair PC's with current, completely up-to-date antivirus programs that were infected with stuff that snuck past their existing protection - including Norton, McAfee, Avast, AVG, Avira, MS Security Essentials, etc. The fake "antivirus programs" from a few years ago were particularly good at sneaking past the big-name AV programs, but I haven't seen any of those in quite a while. So I don't 100% trust ANY of them. And I've found that MalwareBytes usually fixes things that the others miss.
     
  9. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Malawarebytes has been used to scan my system.

    I am racking my brain to try and understand whether it can be my system or something to do with either XenForo or the Message Board specific software such as the log in info.

    I do find it the following interesting:

    1. I cannot get it to fail by using the same technique of toggling within a specific forum; however, if I use New Posts I can consistently get it to fail. I assume that this is done with a Search function to look up information specific to me. Now in the past I was a NAWCC member; however, dropped my membership about two years ago. In the past I have given you my log in information and indicated that you could use it to test this software. If you have it, and have the available software that I find is failing, feel free to sign in under my name and see if you can get it to fail. If you do not have it, start a private conversation and I will give it to you. I may have your private test info that you provide to me and I am willing to try that from my system to see if I can get it to fail. I do need more than 50 unread messages so that 2 or more pages come up. My wonder is whether my past membership info and present state being different than others is causing my failures.

    2. When it fails, I have seen the situation where I start with 2 pages and the failing page shows 4 pages. Now when I start with 3 pages, the failing page still shows 4 pages.

    3. I have also run the following on my system. Each and every time before I toggle the page, I have cleared the cookies then clicked the toggle. Looking at the cookies after the toggle show that a portion of the cookies were rebuilt. I have gone so far to individually remove certain cookies to see if I can force it to fail on the next toggle and it does not.

    So if you can find a way to test it and/or let me test my system with your non-NAWCC account it might help to isolate this.

    As far as your initial question about cookies being abused I hate targeted advertising and will do anything to discourage it.
     
  10. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Can you log into the forum on a friend's computer, as long as they're willing to let you do that. Then you could see if it's Xenforo or if it's your setup.

    Kurt
     
  11. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    I have a windows 7 system with ie11 that appears to work ok...;however, am now testing it to see what cookies are loaded. It is much slower than this system. Also have access to a Windows 10 system with IE11 that I will get to test sometime this weekend as it is not in my home.

    It could be my system....perhaps I should kill reset ie11 and see what happens....just have to research what I might have to rebuild if I do it. I have scanned the disk to see if there are any bad sectors and it is clean...also no errors showing up in the event viewers. Guess that I could go the route with IE11 of removing it and rebooting it...I understand it may come back.

    The IE11 8.1 system has had automatic updates and the ie11 7 system has not had automatic updates so the 7 ie11 software is behind. Perhaps an update caused a problem. I am reluctant to back off the updates on the 8.1 system as they were embedded in the operating system security updates.
     
  12. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    I'm surprised you're sticking with 8.1. At some point it will go the way of Win 7. I've moved all my machines to Win 10 (except for a lone XP computer :eek: ). I just go with the flow and try to keep as up to date as I can.

    Kurt
     
  13. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    I go with IF it isn't broken don't fix it. I will go to 10 when I must replace this system and at the rate that advertising is clogging this system it won't be long.
     
  14. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
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    I liked 95SE, 98, XP & 7, tolerated NT, disliked ME, HATED 8.0 which IMHO was useless without a touch screen, never actually ran 8.1, but might have been able to tolerate it since it worked OK w/ KB & mouse. But 10 is working well for me. I won't say I like 10 better than 7, but it's not worse, either. With 2 years until Win7 support ends, I tell people that there's no immediate need to go to 10. And no real reason not to, either. Unlike 8.0, 10 doesn't feel TOTALLY strange & is relatively easy to learn. But the 100's of PC's we recondition & resell pretty much all go out with Win7Pro (clean install, without bloatware) because that's what they were designed & licensed for. A few go out with 10, but NONE go out with 8.x. Machines that came with 8 seem to run better on 10. Typical "Big Box" consumer-grade machines usually come with so much bloatware that it's nearly impossible to get them to run right without a wipe & clean install.
     
  15. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    I guess we're straying a bit, but I'm just one of the "dumb" users. I have no idea what a PC is like with no "bloatware". I'm sure my stock upgrade to 10 has all of that behind the scenes but it hasn't seemed to hamper my experience. I guess I don't know what I'm missing! ;)

    Kurt
     
  16. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Still researching this:

    Why does the NAWCC Message Board Software and/or the XenForo implementation store in the Temporary Internet Files area each and every forum, post, etc. that I access?
     
  17. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    WHY does this logging off only occur when I go to NEW POSTS which I expect is a NAWCC Message Board specific function since it must check who I am?
     
  18. Bill Stuntz

    Bill Stuntz Registered User
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    MB/XF has nothing to do with it. The OS/browser caches recently viewed pages to save time when a web page with photos would take 15 minutes to re-load via your 24K modem - or 4 minutes via your 56K. Maybe not as necessary when you have a 100M cable connection - but everything gets cached anyway. I think it's a hold-over from when fast connections were exceedingly expensive. Before affordable broadband, a 1.5M T1 connection was > $1000/month, and a 128K ISDN connection was about $150/month. And ordinary people couldn't afford them. DSL & cable changed the speed/price ratio dramatically, but IMHO had a bad side effect: invasive advertising on web sites became MUCH more common.
     
  19. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    I would like to thank all of those who helped me identify my problem and solve it. The suggestions and the testing led me to the conclusion that something was wrong with the IE11 on my system.

    Last evening, after reading the XenForo support site and many hours on the web, I bit a large bullet. I identified each and every option that I had set in IE11 and then hit RESET. After which I rebuilt the options, toolbars, etc.

    Since then I have not been able to recreate my original issue.

    Again, many thanks.

    Dick
     

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