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Enfield movement!

NEW65

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Just a few comments on my experience with a really old Enfield weight driven on chains.
Someone asked me to repair an old Art Deco floor clock which apparently had been service a few years ago!
When I inspected the mechanism I soon realised that this movement has never been serviced since the day it was fitted inside the clock probably 70-80 yrs ago! Loads of sloppy pivots with thick black hardened deposits of oil , a few of which has been punched. Also by the looks of it the chime flirt had been messed with as it wasn’t following the star cam properly and a bit of wire had been bent to try and act as a return spring! Obviously whoever did it couldn’t put it right so they filled the large chime weight cylinder with lead to make the quarter chime work! When I saw the state of this movement I refused to repair it but offered to fit a different movement which they’ve agreed to.
Moan over.
 
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bruce linde

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photos?
 

NEW65

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Just a few pictures of the Smith Enfield but not added in the best order! You may see the bit of wire pushing against the chime flirt. I don’t know why this was added as it does nothing to help. Also there appears to be a post right next to the chime flirt but looks like it’s been sawn off?!
 
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kinsler33

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Just a few comments on my experience with a really old Enfield weight driven on chains.
Someone asked me to repair an old Art Deco floor clock which apparently had been service a few years ago!
When I inspected the mechanism I soon realised that this movement has never been serviced since the day it was fitted inside the clock probably 70-80 yrs ago! Loads of sloppy pivots with thick black hardened deposits of oil , a few of which has been punched. Also by the looks of it the chime flirt had been messed with as it wasn’t following the star cam properly and a bit of wire had been bent to try and act as a return spring! Obviously whoever did it couldn’t put it right so they filled the large chime weight cylinder with lead to make the quarter chime work! When I saw the state of this movement I refused to repair it but offered to fit a different movement which they’ve agreed to.
Moan over.
This was likely a home-built clock with a mail-order movement. To save shipping costs the weight shells were shipped empty, and you were supposed to fill them up with lead or iron scrap. The chime weight is always heavier than the others.
Fitting another movement is not always so easy. The main problem with these movements was that the post-war steel wasn't so great, so try not to bend shafts/pivots. Otherwise I'd clean it like any other movement. You can make springs with piano wire or very thin pivot wire.

M Kinsler
 
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Mike Phelan

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I think there should be a spring to operate on the bell-crank lever, so it can return to rest if the hands are turned backwards. That's why there's a screw there.

It's one of the later Enfields using Smiths designs, thankfully!

Probably post-WW2.
 
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NEW65

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Thanks chaps.
When I have more time I will rebuild it , I have the movement and all accessories. However there’s more going on than just wear and tear. The chime side is proving very tricky to set up! I’m pretty good at setting up the quarter chimes on mechanical movements but this one isn’t playing ball! The quarters start up but are suddenly prevented from running due to the chime warning pin hitting the stop position!! The chime only runs on the 4 x 4 (very rarely also works on the 2 x 4). I’ve tried everything to correct this but no luck so far. I will do a video soon. It’s very odd. This and the fact that it needs lots of bushings etc was the reason I decided to put this work on hold.
Having talked to the owner a decision was made to fit a different movement which I’ve successfully done today. I fitted a smaller HM Kieninger movement with a 116 cm pendulum. I had to fit and reposition a different gong and lift the replacement movement higher in the cabinet to align with the door … here is the clock:
I simply glued a dial back plate to suit the HM movement , to the rear of the round dial that is installed in this clock. All pretty straightforward really. Cannot tell that it’s been altered.

25CC9A2A-C547-4E41-8055-97886A3454FA.png
 
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NEW65

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Thanks Mike for the message. I’m really not familiar with the Smiths Enfield movement. This is the first one I’ve come across . I know all movements work on the same basis but I reckon this would have used up hours of my time if I had have took the work on! There was also an issue with the strike side. When my work load lessens I’ll have mire time to check it out :)
TEA , yes definitely needs bushing… some are VERY sloppy.
Dave, yes it’s too good not to bother so I’ll be taking another look after I’ve added a video of this clock doing the quarters. Hopefully you chaps will see what’s going on
Mark, I have so many spare movements and accessories which helps when I have to exchange a movement for a totally different movement. Thanks for the info on springs.
:)
 

Simon Holt

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I have the exact same clock (although with chromed weights, chains and pendulum bob):
045-thumb.jpg
2019-10-14 09.28.10.jpg
Mine needed a lot of bushings too. I don't recall having any particular problem setting up the chime - it sounds like something is wrong with the position of the auto-correction lever with yours.

I also have the original instruction booklet - PM me if you'd like a copy.

Simon
 

Mike Phelan

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Simon's pic confirms that there's a spring operating on the bell-crank lever.

New65 - As this is someone else's clock, what you did is probably the best idea - you can repair the original movement and sell it at your leisure.
 

NEW65

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Thanks Simon and Mike. Funny you said that Mike because that’s exactly what I intend doing. I have the movement and all accessories . I still intend doing a video and will put that on here soon. I’ve just been busy recently, time goes by so quickly when doing clock repairs!
Simon, yes that looks like the same movement! I have noticed a small lever, positioned behind the long lever, and fixed to the long such that it is free and allowed to drop into the chime stop. There is no spring though/ should this small lever have a return spring ?
Any advice you can offer would be great -i will pm if you prefer :) Thanks Simon .
 

Simon Holt

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I have noticed a small lever, positioned behind the long lever, and fixed to the long such that it is free and allowed to drop into the chime stop. There is no spring though/ should this small lever have a return spring ?
Any advice you can offer would be great -i will pm if you prefer :) Thanks Simon .
Are you referring to this lever?
2019-09-24 12.39.10 (2).jpg
No spring assist on that one.

I've just spotted that the chime cam in your picture is missing a pin, which provides extra lift at the end of the 3/4 chime to engage the auto-correction:
1631944812522.png

I'm happy to help here on the board, by the way. My suggestion of using PM was for if you wanted the instruction booklet images. I'm not sure I should post those publicly (although maybe copyright has expired by now).

Simon
 

NEW65

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Sorry Simon for the delay in getting back to you. I went through a quiet patch for a few weeks and things have gone mad now.
I’ll check the chime count and see where the pin was, it sounds as if this could be the problem. The lever I’m referring to is actually behind the long lever and fixed at the rear. I’ll get back to you.
Thanks again
 

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