Emperor with Hermle movement runs way too fast

[Jayke]

Good day folks! I have an Emperor Westminster chime, lunar phase clock with a Hermle 341-020 pendulum driven movement. It has run extremely fast since I first acquired it. The only way I have successfully regulated it is by taping coins to the pendulum. To indicate how fast it is: It was race up to 2-3 hours ahead


I measured the pendulum length and it is 11 cm which is what I understand the stamped numbers indicate.


When I got it I found a “spare” suspension spring in the case. I’ve noticed that the pendulum travel (side-to-side) is practically nonexistent. The seller’s wife told me the seller liked to “tinker” with his clocks. It finally hit me that the problem may be too short a suspension spring, especially in light of the fact that I found a “spare” in the case.


What are your thoughts on my theory?


Any way I can find out what the correct length suspension spring it is supposed to have?

 

[bruce linde]

the rate is determined by the length of the pendulum... from the flex point to the center of mass of the pendulum bob.... doesn't really matter whether the bob is lighter or heavier (although some larger regulator movements like a heavier one).

what's the difference in length between the existing and extra suspension springs? i think there's more going on than just the suspension spring, given 2-3 hours a day of inaccuracy and a minimal pendulum swing.

has the movement ever been serviced? fully taken apart, pivot holes cleaned, pivots burnished, ultrasonic'd, any issues addressed, etc.? there are many here very familiar with the hermle movements who will no doubt chime in... but even if you lower the bob (really, center of mass of the bob) enough to get it somewhere near accuracy, the minimal pendulum swing indicates a need for more attention.

 

[Jayke]

the rate is determined by the length of the pendulum... from the flex point to the center of mass of the pendulum bob.... doesn't really matter whether the bob is lighter or heavier (although some larger regulator movements like a heavier one).

what's the difference in length between the existing and extra suspension springs? i think there's more going on than just the suspension spring, given 2-3 hours a day of inaccuracy and a minimal pendulum swing.

has the movement ever been serviced? fully taken apart, pivot holes cleaned, pivots burnished, ultrasonic'd, any issues addressed, etc.? there are many here very familiar with the hermle movements who will no doubt chime in... but even if you lower the bob (really, center of mass of the bob) enough to get it somewhere near accuracy, the minimal pendulum swing indicates a need for more attention.

Well as for the weight, the coins did slow it to accuracy. I tried different coins/combinations of coins before settling on a quarter and a nickel and it's been doing fine, but I want to get it to work correctly (without the coins). I was going for weight in hopes that it would increase the side-to-side swing of the pendulum. I can't say why it works, but it has. Just a hunch I had. I've heard the same thing you say from others. I don't dispute you, it's just what has worked.

As for the description you gave about where to measure from and to, THAT's definitely different. The total length of the pendulum assembly (from hook to bottom of the bob) is 11 cm versus what you described. You may have just hit on the problem right there!

As for servicing I have no history on the clock. I personally have never taken it in for servicing and I've had it for a year or two. I've been hesitant to make that kind of investment in such a low quality clock, but I may be forced to deal with it. I won't be able to see if it needs to be rebushed. The movement appears "clean" to the naked eye, but I know to assume that means it's clean would be foolish.

The difference in the springs' length is something I don't have accurate measurements on, but the one installed appears ever so slightly longer.

I have this bob lowered to it's maximum depth.

Your reply is much appreciated

 

[bangster]

Small amplitude = running fast (ticks and tocks closer together). Possibly not enough power getting to the escapement.

 

[Willie X]

The pendulum swing should be about 3/4 inch. So, when you fix the
"practicaly non-existent" pendulum swing the clock will probably give you a good rate.

A common cause of your problem is that the pallets are not adjusted deep enough into the escape wheel.

The e-wheel teeth should always drop onto the 'dead' face of the pallet, then the tooth tip should slide up that dead face for about .2 mm and then slide back down to encounter the impulse face on the pallet' s bottom edge. The tooth will make a quick slide across the impulse face and the cycle repeats on the other pallet.

The impulse face is what powers the clock, when adjusted correctly. In your case I'm guessing the e-wheel teeth are falling directly onto the impulse faces only, pallets are to high. This delivers the impulse forces in the wrong direction and at the wrong time.

There are great animations available to show you exactly how a dead beat escapement is supposed tp work.

Willie X

 

[Jayke]

Small amplitude = running fast (ticks and tocks closer together). Possibly not enough power getting to the escapement.

Yeah I'm thinking that's what Bruce was suggesting too. It makes all the sense in the world. I just hate having to go to the expense of having such a low quality piece serviced by a pro. I know I know. I'm a cheap bastard..., but I have some lovely antique clocks that I want ran over by a pro long before I send in this vintage subpar model I guess. I have mechanical taste on a quartz budget I guess

 

[Jayke]

The pendulum swing should be about 3/4 inch. So, when you fix the
"practicaly non-existent" pendulum swing the clock will probably give you a good rate.

A common cause of your problem is that the pallets are not adjusted deep enough into the escape wheel.

The e-wheel teeth should always drop onto the 'dead' face of the pallet, then the tooth tip should slide up that dead face for about .2 mm and then slide back down to encounter the impulse face on the pallet' s bottom edge. The tooth will make a quick slide across the impulse face and the cycle repeats on the other pallet.

The impulse face is what powers the clock, when adjusted correctly. In your case I'm guessing the e-wheel teeth are falling directly onto the impulse faces only, pallets are to high. This delivers the impulse forces in the wrong direction and at the wrong time.

There are great animations available to show you exactly how a dead beat escapement is supposed tp work.

Willie X

Thanks so much Willie. I'll take a gander at that. I just love the technical side of things. Clocks are so precise. I think that's why I love them so much...and also why my hair line has receded

 

[mauleg]

...I just hate having to go to the expense of having such a low quality piece serviced by a pro...before I send in this vintage subpar model I guess.

It seems to me that the possession of a "vintage subpar model" that needs servicing, but is not worth spending much on is the perfect opportunity to dive into the rabbit hole of servicing your own movements. With a very modest investment in literature, simple hand tools and lots of pictures and patience as you go along, you will accrue all due accolades, glory and honor.

 

[James Foster]

Yeah I'm thinking that's what Bruce was suggesting too. It makes all the sense in the world. I just hate having to go to the expense of having such a low quality piece serviced by a pro. I know I know. I'm a cheap bastard..., but I have some lovely antique clocks that I want ran over by a pro long before I send in this vintage subpar model I guess. I have mechanical taste on a quartz budget I guess

Jayke

If you are interested in learning a little about escapement geometry you can play with this movement. I would say Willie X is correct that the escape wheel teeth are landing on the impulse face and causing the clock to run fast and bangster is correct that there is not enough power to the escape wheel. In fact if the escapement is adjusted correctly there may not be enough power to the escape wheel to push the pendulum enough to allow the the clock to keep running.

Your movement was made in 1978 which is evidence it is likely nearing or at the end of its useful life without significant and costly intervention. Given the price of a new 341-020 I would not consider paying a “pro” to touch the old movement. As mauleg suggested you may as well learn what you can from this movement by trying whatever you want. My point is if a reliable working clock is your goal, the most cost effective step, in my opinion, is to order a replacement which is likely less than half the cost to have a pro address it’s problems.

Jim

 

[shutterbug]

You can watch several different escape wheel/anchor animations here.

 

[Jayke]

I really want to thank every one for your replies. I honestly never considered working on the movement myself. I've been hesitant because nearly all of my clocks are antiques, but as mauleg pointed out, this is a great opportunity because it is merely a vintage subpar model (a fact I'm sorry to say never ocured to me).
And as James Foster pointed out, should I completely wreck the poor thing, a replacement is in fact available.

Perhaps you gents could help me out with a few more questions (should you be so gracious as to help me further)
1) Do you have any recommendations for where I could pick up a new movement?
2) What tools do you suggest a complete novice like me should consider getting?
a) I've looked for a mainspring winder but wow we wow are they expensive!
b) I'm guessing I'll at least need the following:
i) A mainspring let-down tool
ii) A staking set
iii) A chamfer tool set
iv) A movement stand
v) A set of files
vi) Mainspring c-clamps
vii) Tapered Pins
viii) Washers
vi) Some sort of cleaning solvent
x) A jeweler's loop
xi) Clock oil (which I actually have now)
xii) 3 dead chickens and a live seagull
3) What would you recommend to be the best place to buy these and other tools you might suggest?

 

[shutterbug]

Replace the chickens and seagull with some reamers and a set of bushings .
Here's a place that offers great video's to help beginners get started. The introduction video covers watches and clocks. The clock part starts about 1/2 way through.

 

[Jayke]

Replace the chickens and seagull with some reamers and a set of bushings .
Here's a place that offers great video's to help beginners get started. The introduction video covers watches and clocks. The clock part starts about 1/2 way through.

It figures. I've already got the 3 dead chickens and the live seagull. Cest la vi.

Thanks again shutterbug

 

[bangster]

a) I've looked for a mainspring winder but wow we wow are they expensive!
See Joe Collins Spring Winder Plans /
b) I'm guessing I'll at least need the following:
i) A mainspring let-down tool
* ii) A staking set
* iii) A chamfer tool set
iv) A movement stand
v) A set of files
vi) Mainspring c-clamps
vii) Tapered Pins
viii) Washers
vi) Some sort of cleaning solvent
x) A jeweler's loop
xi) Clock oil (which I actually have now)
*xii) 3 dead chickens and a live seagull
xiii) A set of cutting broaches
xiv) A pivot-getter
xv) small screwdrivers
xvi) needle-nose pliers
xvii) a set of assembly legs (assembly clamps)
See Bushing Using Hand Tools
Books by Conover and Balcomb
-------------
*Not to begin with.
------------------------
3) What would you recommend to be the best place to buy these and other tools you might suggest?
Ronell
Timesavers
Ebay

 

[mauleg]

1) Do you have any recommendations for where I could pick up a new movement?

http://butterworthclocks.com/

username: butterworth
password: butterworth

2) What tools do you suggest a complete novice like me should consider getting?

This article provides some good suggestions.

a) I've looked for a mainspring winder but wow we wow are they expensive!

See the Joe Collins spring winder

b) I'm guessing I'll at least need the following...

For now, you can live without:

ii) A staking set
iii) A chamfer tool set
vi) Mainspring c-clamps (These don't apply to your current movement)

Also:

iv) A movement stand (rather than a movement stand, get a set of these.
x) A jeweler's loop (I Like these better than a loupe.)

3) What would you recommend to be the best place to buy these and other tools you might suggest?

Timesavers
Ronell Clocks
Clockworks

Others may have other suppliers to add.

Other tools:

4mm pegwood (1 package)
oil drip applicators (Oil Cups & Holder is a nice addition, but not required)
#6/0 Emery Buff (3-4 or these for polishing pivots)
#1500 sandpaper (for pivots in rougher shape; follow with Emery Buff)

Bangster is just too fast for me. I blame the typhoon.

 

[bangster]

Make yourself a test stand.

 

[Jayke]

Guys all I can say is "Wow!" Thank you all so so much

 

[Jayke]

http://butterworthclocks.com/

username: butterworth
password: butterworth



This article provides some good suggestions.



See the Joe Collins spring winder



For now, you can live without:

ii) A staking set
iii) A chamfer tool set
vi) Mainspring c-clamps (These don't apply to your current movement)

Also:

iv) A movement stand (rather than a movement stand, get a set of these.
x) A jeweler's loop (I Like these better than a loupe.)




Timesavers
Ronell Clocks
Clockworks

Others may have other suppliers to add.

Other tools:

4mm pegwood (1 package)
oil drip applicators (Oil Cups & Holder is a nice addition, but not required)
#6/0 Emery Buff (3-4 or these for polishing pivots)
#1500 sandpaper (for pivots in rougher shape; follow with Emery Buff)

Bangster is just too fast for me. I blame the typhoon.

I do hope you're doing alright. Honestly I never monitor the Pacific for tropical cyclone activity being as I live in a state abutting the Atlantic

 

[Jayke]

You know it occurred to me that there's no way I'll ever be able to repay the kindness you guys have shared with me in a direct way, but I do hope to work and continue to learn so that one day I might be able to help the next guy.

 

[mauleg]

I do hope you're doing alright. Honestly I never monitor the Pacific for tropical cyclone activity being as I live in a state abutting the Atlantic

Thanks for the inquiry, Jayke; a few details may be found in this thread.

 

[Jayke]

Thanks for the inquiry, Jayke; a few details may be found in this thread.

Geez. I'm glad your home was spared and I'm glad you were resourceful enough to have redundant systems. I will certainly be praying for you and your community

 

[sparkey0151]

Well as for the weight, the coins did slow it to accuracy. I tried different coins/combinations of coins before settling on a quarter and a nickel and it's been doing fine, but I want to get it to work correctly (without the coins). I was going for weight in hopes that it would increase the side-to-side swing of the pendulum. I can't say why it works, but it has. Just a hunch I had. I've heard the same thing you say from others. I don't dispute you, it's just what has worked.

As for the description you gave about where to measure from and to, THAT's definitely different. The total length of the pendulum assembly (from hook to bottom of the bob) is 11 cm versus what you described. You may have just hit on the problem right there!

As for servicing I have no history on the clock. I personally have never taken it in for servicing and I've had it for a year or two. I've been hesitant to make that kind of investment in such a low quality clock, but I may be forced to deal with it. I won't be able to see if it needs to be rebushed. The movement appears "clean" to the naked eye, but I know to assume that means it's clean would be foolish.

The difference in the springs' length is something I don't have accurate measurements on, but the one installed appears ever so slightly longer.

I have this bob lowered to it's maximum depth.

Your reply is much appreciated

 

[sparkey0151]

Is the suspension spring the correct 1 ? It could be to stiff, I would check this out, it may need a service as well


John

 

[kinsler33]

Unless you've got something very extreme neither the length nor the thickness of the suspension spring makes much difference in a clock's performance.

Note that some of the tools you've specified aren't necessary at the beginning, and making your own mainspring winder is a good idea. If you live in the US, a trip through your nearest Harbor Freight Tools store will provide pliers, screwdrivers, tweezers, a pick-and-hook set, a loupe, files both big and small (I like diamond files), some single-edge razor blades, some punches, and a light hammer (you don't really need a jeweler's hammer, but they have those.) I use a square of light-colored carpet for a work surface, and do a great deal of work with Harbor Freight's cheapest table-top drill press (around fifty bucks depending on what's on sale.) And an inexpensive set of twist drills that you can alter so they work in brass (see other posts.)

One power tool, which is a Dremel-like hand grinder. Harbor Freight has one for ten bucks that I like very much: it's very small, is powered through a wall adapter (no batteries) and has, hooray, a very thin power cord that makes the tool easy to handle. Its speed is high but its torque is low, so it's hard to get into trouble.

You'll also want paper catalogs from Timesavers, at the very least. You can make your own movement stand, and use the movement holder thing recommended earlier (Timesavers seems to have the best price on these and the very necessary let--down tools.) I'd also recommend some of the 'emery buffs' sold by Timesavers: get at least two each in 'grits' 1/0 through 6/0. And stop by your local supermarket for a box of round wooden toothpicks.

For a cleaning solvent I recommend Zep Fast 505, which is a ferocious industrial de-greaser that should cost about eight bucks per gallon at your local home improvement store. You will also want to acquire, somehow, some clock junk, including screws, nuts, old movements, hands, dials, wheels, and other horological detritus. You'll gradually accumulate your own junk box items, but it's helpful to have some to start with.

Mark Kinsler

 

[sparkey0151]

Unless you've got something very extreme neither the length nor the thickness of the suspension spring makes much difference in a clock's performance.

Note that some of the tools you've specified aren't necessary at the beginning, and making your own mainspring winder is a good idea. If you live in the US, a trip through your nearest Harbor Freight Tools store will provide pliers, screwdrivers, tweezers, a pick-and-hook set, a loupe, files both big and small (I like diamond files), some single-edge razor blades, some punches, and a light hammer (you don't really need a jeweler's hammer, but they have those.) I use a square of light-colored carpet for a work surface, and do a great deal of work with Harbor Freight's cheapest table-top drill press (around fifty bucks depending on what's on sale.) And an inexpensive set of twist drills that you can alter so they work in brass (see other posts.)

One power tool, which is a Dremel-like hand grinder. Harbor Freight has one for ten bucks that I like very much: it's very small, is powered through a wall adapter (no batteries) and has, hooray, a very thin power cord that makes the tool easy to handle. Its speed is high but its torque is low, so it's hard to get into trouble.

You'll also want paper catalogs from Timesavers, at the very least. You can make your own movement stand, and use the movement holder thing recommended earlier (Timesavers seems to have the best price on these and the very necessary let--down tools.) I'd also recommend some of the 'emery buffs' sold by Timesavers: get at least two each in 'grits' 1/0 through 6/0. And stop by your local supermarket for a box of round wooden toothpicks.

For a cleaning solvent I recommend Zep Fast 505, which is a ferocious industrial de-greaser that should cost about eight bucks per gallon at your local home improvement store. You will also want to acquire, somehow, some clock junk, including screws, nuts, old movements, hands, dials, wheels, and other horological detritus. You'll gradually accumulate your own junk box items, but it's helpful to have some to start with.

Mark Kinsler

If the suspension spring is to stiff it will make a difference in the time keeping, in my experience it makes the clock run fast, I have purchased mixed lots of suspension springs off fleabay noting the stiffer ones, which on investigation ie thickness, measured with a mic certainly make the clock run fast so my suggestion is based on practical experience. For this reason I won't buy suspension springs in mixed lots, I will buy from parts suppliers hear in the UK being Cousins, I am not up on the theory side of this, but I must have a word with my uncle who is a watchmaker and still does some repairs at the age of 89.

John

 

[sparkey0151]

Unless you've got something very extreme neither the length nor the thickness of the suspension spring makes much difference in a clock's performance.

Note that some of the tools you've specified aren't necessary at the beginning, and making your own mainspring winder is a good idea. If you live in the US, a trip through your nearest Harbor Freight Tools store will provide pliers, screwdrivers, tweezers, a pick-and-hook set, a loupe, files both big and small (I like diamond files), some single-edge razor blades, some punches, and a light hammer (you don't really need a jeweler's hammer, but they have those.) I use a square of light-colored carpet for a work surface, and do a great deal of work with Harbor Freight's cheapest table-top drill press (around fifty bucks depending on what's on sale.) And an inexpensive set of twist drills that you can alter so they work in brass (see other posts.)

One power tool, which is a Dremel-like hand grinder. Harbor Freight has one for ten bucks that I like very much: it's very small, is powered through a wall adapter (no batteries) and has, hooray, a very thin power cord that makes the tool easy to handle. Its speed is high but its torque is low, so it's hard to get into trouble.

You'll also want paper catalogs from Timesavers, at the very least. You can make your own movement stand, and use the movement holder thing recommended earlier (Timesavers seems to have the best price on these and the very necessary let--down tools.) I'd also recommend some of the 'emery buffs' sold by Timesavers: get at least two each in 'grits' 1/0 through 6/0. And stop by your local supermarket for a box of round wooden toothpicks.

For a cleaning solvent I recommend Zep Fast 505, which is a ferocious industrial de-greaser that should cost about eight bucks per gallon at your local home improvement store. You will also want to acquire, somehow, some clock junk, including screws, nuts, old movements, hands, dials, wheels, and other horological detritus. You'll gradually accumulate your own junk box items, but it's helpful to have some to start with.

Mark Kinsler

Is this reply to more users as I did not specified any tooling in this thread ?

 

[Jayke]

Well I pulled the movement out of the case (though I have precious few tools yet). The only worn pivots I see are on both the flies. There's no side to side shake (to the naked eye) on any other pivots.
I've done some reading as well as some watching about escapement theory (some from the NAWCC its self).
Naturally I have no way of accurately measuring 4° to ensure the angle of the pallets are correct. The impulse pallet fits the escape teeth like a glove. The lock pallet though that looks shallow to me.

The movement undoubtedly could use a good disassembly and cleaning. I can see grime in some of the pivots.

This a completely novice question, but is it still likely that the escape wheel is receiving inadequate power, if the escapement runs away with its self with the bob removed? It seems eager to want to run, even with the bob hung? I guess I'm asking because I'm wondering if the problem isn't just a maladjusted lock pallet.

 

[Willie X]

Carefully and very slowly move the crutch back and forth. Observe exactly where the E-wheel teeth are dropping onto the pallets. You need to check each pallet. A view from the side at a small angle is best. As already stated, every tooth has to fall on the dead face of the pallet. If it falls on the slanted face at the tip, or on the boundry ledge, your pendulum will not move properly.

This is usually easy to see but, even with perfect eyesight, you will need magnification like an 8" or 10" focal length Optivisor. What happens at the instant the tooth drops is what your looking for.

Willie X

 

[Jayke]

Carefully and very slowly move the crutch back and forth. Observe exactly where the E-wheel teeth are dropping onto the pallets. You need to check each pallet. A view from the side at a small angle is best. As already stated, every tooth has to fall on the dead face of the pallet. If it falls on the slanted face at the tip, or on the boundry ledge, your pendulum will not move properly.

This is usually easy to see but, even with perfect eyesight, you will need magnification like an 8" or 10" focal length Optivisor. What happens at the instant the tooth drops is what your looking for.

Willie X

I just ordered a set of illuminated magnifier glasses from Amazon for about $10.00 per your suggestion.

 

[Jayke]

Unless you've got something very extreme neither the length nor the thickness of the suspension spring makes much difference in a clock's performance.

Note that some of the tools you've specified aren't necessary at the beginning, and making your own mainspring winder is a good idea. If you live in the US, a trip through your nearest Harbor Freight Tools store will provide pliers, screwdrivers, tweezers, a pick-and-hook set, a loupe, files both big and small (I like diamond files), some single-edge razor blades, some punches, and a light hammer (you don't really need a jeweler's hammer, but they have those.) I use a square of light-colored carpet for a work surface, and do a great deal of work with Harbor Freight's cheapest table-top drill press (around fifty bucks depending on what's on sale.) And an inexpensive set of twist drills that you can alter so they work in brass (see other posts.)

One power tool, which is a Dremel-like hand grinder. Harbor Freight has one for ten bucks that I like very much: it's very small, is powered through a wall adapter (no batteries) and has, hooray, a very thin power cord that makes the tool easy to handle. Its speed is high but its torque is low, so it's hard to get into trouble.

You'll also want paper catalogs from Timesavers, at the very least. You can make your own movement stand, and use the movement holder thing recommended earlier (Timesavers seems to have the best price on these and the very necessary let--down tools.) I'd also recommend some of the 'emery buffs' sold by Timesavers: get at least two each in 'grits' 1/0 through 6/0. And stop by your local supermarket for a box of round wooden toothpicks.

For a cleaning solvent I recommend Zep Fast 505, which is a ferocious industrial de-greaser that should cost about eight bucks per gallon at your local home improvement store. You will also want to acquire, somehow, some clock junk, including screws, nuts, old movements, hands, dials, wheels, and other horological detritus. You'll gradually accumulate your own junk box items, but it's helpful to have some to start with.

Mark Kinsler

I work for an auto repair shop and one of our mechanics just loves Harbor Freight. Personally I never thought to look at them for clock repair. Thank you!

I know you are correct about the suspension spring. You are completely supported by many different authors/experts. I guess I'm just grasping at straws

 

[Jayke]

If the suspension spring is to stiff it will make a difference in the time keeping, in my experience it makes the clock run fast, I have purchased mixed lots of suspension springs off fleabay noting the stiffer ones, which on investigation ie thickness, measured with a mic certainly make the clock run fast so my suggestion is based on practical experience. For this reason I won't buy suspension springs in mixed lots, I will buy from parts suppliers hear in the UK being Cousins, I am not up on the theory side of this, but I must have a word with my uncle who is a watchmaker and still does some repairs at the age of 89.

John

Thank you for your anecdotal reply as I too have found that some things work even though the theory says they don't. My applying coins to a bob shouldn't make one bit of difference, but for some reason it does. All of the theory says it's length rather than weight that regulates. All of the replies stating that weight is irrelevant is totally correct and backed up by experts. I guess theory and practice sometimes diverge. In either case my method, though effective, isn't correct.

I had the same thought you expressed about the suspension spring. I don't know if it's my very cursory understanding of physics that led me to that hypothesis or if it was sheer desperation :-D.

Much congrats to your uncle. If I live that long I hope I have the mental and physical dexterity he apparently has.

 

[Jayke]

Is this reply to more users as I did not specified any tooling in this thread ?

I had asked in the thread what a complete novice like me should start rounding up by way of tools

 

[shutterbug]

My applying coins to a bob shouldn't make one bit of difference, but for some reason it does.

Putting weight into the bottom of the bob changes the center of oscillation. It has the effect of lengthening the pendulum, slowing down the clock. Altering the weight without changing the CoO will have no effect on the timing.
Interestingly, adding weight ABOVE the center of oscillation will cause the clock to run faster. This proves that it isn't the weight, but the placement of the weight that causes changes.

 

[Jayke]

Putting weight into the bottom of the bob changes the center of oscillation. It has the effect of lengthening the pendulum, slowing down the clock. Altering the weight without changing the CoO will have no effect on the timing.
Interestingly, adding weight ABOVE the center of oscillation will cause the clock to run faster. This proves that it isn't the weight, but the placement of the weight that causes changes.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
What is CoO?

 

[shutterbug]

I didn't want to type Center of Oscillation again

 

[Jayke]

Well I've just spent about $100 I don't have to buy most of the tools. Credit card debt is fun lol. I'm going to take the plunge guys! You inspired me and may God have mercy on my clock :-D

 

[Jayke]

I didn't want to type Center of Oscillation again

Sorry! I guess all of my coffee still isn't circulating yet ;-)

 

[Jayke]

Does anyone have a photo of what this movement's original pendulum should look like? All of the images I find for the 340-020 movement have that miserable floating balance setup. I've asked Clockworks, but their response wasn't quite what I was hoping it would be. I just can't shake the feeling that the pendulum may not be correct and it's bugging the hell out of me.

 

[Uhralt]

What is CoO?

Cobalt monoxide

 

[mauleg]

Does anyone have a photo of what this movement's original pendulum should look like? All of the images I find for the 340-020 movement have that miserable floating balance setup. I've asked Clockworks, but their response wasn't quite what I was hoping it would be. I just can't shake the feeling that the pendulum may not be correct and it's bugging the hell out of me.

I'm willing to bet that this one is the same. "Miserable" floating balance? I beg to differ. I have many clocks with floating balances and they are reliable and accurate timekeepers. They also don't require leveling, a nice side benefit.

 

[Willie X]

Jayke,

The pendulum should look exactly like the one you have.

After 40 hits there doesn't seem to be any observations much coming from your end. The critical observation, about the pallet's depth in relation to the escape wheel teeth, has never been answered, unless I missed missed something. This list works like a charm but it take some level of cooperation between the listers and the person that has the problem.

Willie X

 

[Jayke]

I'm willing to bet that this one is the same. "Miserable" floating balance? I beg to differ. I have many clocks with floating balances and they are reliable and accurate timekeepers. They also don't require leveling, a nice side benefit.

Yes they are good time keepers. I do have a Howard Miller wall clock with a floating balance that keeps time beautifully. You are right they are easy to keep running. I had a Linden with a floating balance that was a nightmare though. I guess I'm just partial to pendulum driven movements.

 

[Jayke]

Jayke,

The pendulum should look exactly like the one you have.

After 40 hits there doesn't seem to be any observations much coming from your end. The critical observation, about the pallet's depth in relation to the escape wheel teeth, has never been answered, unless I missed missed something. This list works like a charm but it take some level of cooperation between the listers and the person that has the problem.

Willie X

Willie on the one hand I appreciate the position you’re coming from. On the other I’m offended.


1) For me a message board’s function, in this context is:

a. To discuss various aspects of horology.

b. To interact with fellow clock enthusiast. To me it is as much social as it is informational.

2) I am waiting for tools to arrive from Ronell.

a. Without the tools, and specifically without the optical magnifiers, any observation may not be adequate. In order to gain better observations and more intricate detail I need the tools to do the job

3) I’d much rather be in possession of as much information as possible for when I am able to sit down and work on the clock, as this will be my very first attempt.

4) I want to float all of my hypotheses to people who are experienced, if not expert. As I am a complete novice, and am learning, I don’t want to allow my own incorrect ideas to pollute my learning processes; so, I’d rather run them by people in the know to see if they might be correct or not

5) I’m busy.

a. I work a full-time job.

b. I have a host of medical problems that requires time commitments to address, and I have to be patient with myself as they inhibit my quality of life, mental clarity, energy level, and abilities.

c. I do volunteer work that takes up some of my time.

d. I have a social life.

e. Though I am excited to be venturing into the world of clock repair I have to keep my priorities in order. This means that sitting down and taking observations and reporting them back won’t be at the very top of my list. My health and volunteer work must come first. It’s a need vs. wants issue for me.

6) If my posts are disturbing you, you had options available to you, other than writing a crass and snide post. NAWCC’s message board offers you the choice to ignore the thread and/or ignore the original poster. I’m sorry that my responses haven’t been detailed or timely enough for you, or that the number of replies I’ve posted are considered excessive to you. Might I suggest you observe the old adage: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.” You have power over you and your life. If something I’m doing is disturbing you, you have the power to take action to mitigate my involvement in your life, but you are powerless over my actions.

 

[Jayke]

Cobalt monoxide

That's where my brain went too! :-D

 

[Jayke]

Carefully and very slowly move the crutch back and forth. Observe exactly where the E-wheel teeth are dropping onto the pallets. You need to check each pallet. A view from the side at a small angle is best. As already stated, every tooth has to fall on the dead face of the pallet. If it falls on the slanted face at the tip, or on the boundry ledge, your pendulum will not move properly.

This is usually easy to see but, even with perfect eyesight, you will need magnification like an 8" or 10" focal length Optivisor. What happens at the instant the tooth drops is what your looking for.

Willie X

Unfortunately my optical magnifiers have not yet arrived; however close examination does reveal that the impulse pallet is striking at the tip and then sliding down onto the dead face. Without slow, deliberate movement it wasn't obvious. I'll try to read up on how to adjust a deadbeat strip pallet