(Elgin) Private Label Research

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by John F, Jun 10, 2002.

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  1. beta21

    beta21 Registered User

    Jun 6, 2003
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    Re: Private Label Research

    I see Fred has recorded two earlier ones than the #150911 I have

    Peter


     
  2. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    328299 - Geo W. Biggs, Pittsburgh PA (marked movement with heart shaped balance cock cutout, SS Roman dial marked "Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.")

    121.jpg 123.jpg
     
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  3. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    19022044 - Elite (marked 2-tone movement, DS Arabic "Elgin" dial)
     

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  4. marking_time

    marking_time Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    Fred Hansen listed 100 private label watches in post #196. I noticed several C.D. Peacock labeled watches. C.D. Peacock still exists and is the oldest retail jewelry store in Chicago, IL. Illinois Watch Co. also made some private label watches for them.
    Mike Robie
     
  5. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    Serial 1214005, 16 size and marked on the dial and movement with "C.F. Greenwood & Bro, Norfolk, VA" ...
     

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  6. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Serial 76510, 10 size and marked on the movement with "N. Simpson, Waverly Iowa" ...
     

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  7. crsides

    crsides Registered User

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    Geo. W. De Mars
    Lawrence.
     

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  8. sderek

    sderek Registered User
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    #208 sderek, Jul 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
    Re: Private Label Research

    I came across this 1870 private label Elgin grade 57 a while back. Marked "W. H. McCoy Des Moines, Iowa" on the dial and movement.
    Serial number 115084.
     

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  9. Les

    Les New Member

    Feb 14, 2007
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    Just ran across this inquiry regarding the "Hanzi" engraved Elgin... I acquired the watch and it resides in my collection. Serial number is 75049. It was and is cased in a salesman sample style case. I got a translation of the Chinese Hanzi characters and they were interesting. If you would like to post the picture feel free.

     
  10. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    With the permission of the watch owner I am posting this photo from my archives. I hope I am not violating any rights of the unknown photographer.

    Les, please share with us your translation of the markings.
     
  11. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    Reviving a great research thread here, a few more Elgin private labels ...


    9.jpg

    10.jpg

    6434502 - H.E. Adams, Sanford Fla (marked mvt, DS Arabic "H.E. Adams, Railway Standard" marked dial)


    11.jpg

    12.jpg

    8499003 - B.H. Steif Jewelry Co., RR Special, Nashville Tenn. (marked mvt and SS Arabic dial)


    13.jpg

    14.jpg

    8400005 - C.P. Kryhl, Santa Ana Cal (DS Arabic dial only, factory marked early 1st run Veritas)


    15.jpg

    16.jpg

    17.jpg

    4329517 - Webb C. Ball, Cleveland O. (marked SS Arabic O'hara dial only, factory marked mvt)
     
  12. luvsthetick

    luvsthetick Registered User

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    Re: Private Label Research

    Here is another one. Marked on the 10s movement #187049 H. F. Andrews, Strasburg, PA.
    DSC_0004-001.jpg DSC_0005-001.jpg

    DSC_0004-001.jpg DSC_0005-001.jpg
     
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  13. ejpontius

    ejpontius Registered User

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    A.K. Jobe, Jackson, Tenn. private dial - 18s, 15j Elgin B.W. Raymond movement (s/n 4560787).
     

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  14. ejpontius

    ejpontius Registered User

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    A. Kuckuk, Shawano, Wis. private dial, private label - 18s, 15j Elgin G.M. Wheeler movement (s/n 4279693)
     

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  15. KennethE

    KennethE Registered User

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    This is an 12 size Elgin, 7 jewel, serial number 16,715,054, No. 303 which dates to 1912. The dial says "Michon's Special". The movement is in the original inner and outer shipping case. I don't believe the watch has ever been wound 001.jpg 006.jpg 009.jpg
     
  16. 179

    179 Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    Ken, can you confirm if it is printed special name on the label?
     
  17. ejpontius

    ejpontius Registered User

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    From the picture it appears that it say "Special Name" in red ink, vertically on the right side starting just to the right of the 'G' in Pendant Setting, no?
     
  18. ejpontius

    ejpontius Registered User

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    Re: Private Label Research

    C.D. Peacock
    Elgin, Model 7, Grade 382, 16s, 17j, 3-finger bridge (s/n 19252618)

    C.D. Peacock is still a well known jewelry business in Chicago.
     

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  19. KennethE

    KennethE Registered User

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    Yes, I can confirm that the label is stamped "SPECIAL NAME".
     
  20. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    43.jpg

    303270 - Jaccard & Co., Kansas City Mo. (marked mvt w/ cutout balance cock, SS Roman "Elgin Natl Watch Co." dial)
     
  21. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    71.jpg

    72.jpg

    15674239 - Paillard Non-Magnetic Watch Company, Chicago Ill. U.S.A. (signed sunk-seconds recessed-center dial only, movement completely unsigned but with non-magnetic balance and hairspring)
     
  22. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    Elgin Serial # 2,473,685 KWKS with a Private Label

    Geo. P. Kirkland
    Nashville, Tenn.

    In a original black patina 2 oz. Coin Case by A.W.W.Co.
     

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  23. Luis Casillas

    Luis Casillas Registered User

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    #223 Luis Casillas, Aug 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    Re: Private Label Research

    Elgin J.E. Rosenthal, St. Louis, #325,693 (grade 55, c. 1874). This is another one of those heart-cutout balance cocks:

    xyzzytom_191680 xyzzytom_191681

    Another thing that I think is of interest is that it's got a very low serial number for the "wavy" balance bridge style (instead of the earlier "sharp" bridge in the first Elgins).
     
  24. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    #224 Fred Hansen, Sep 11, 2013
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    Re: Private Label Research

    18.jpg

    19.jpg

    6469291 - F.A. Robbins Company (marked DS Arabic dial)
     
  25. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    20.jpg

    21.jpg

    12739166 - Schaul & May, Atlanta GA (marked DS Arabic dial and movement)
     
  26. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    22.jpg

    23.jpg

    1397381 - Webb C. Ball, Cleveland O. (marked SS Arabic dial)
     
  27. Luis Casillas

    Luis Casillas Registered User

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    #227 Luis Casillas, Sep 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804

    Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804. This one has a monogrammed "AG" dial and the heart-shaped balance cock cutout.

    xyzzytom_194972 xyzzytom_194973 xyzzytom_194974
     
  28. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804

    221.jpg 222.jpg

    10737076 - Lungreen & Wilson, St. Charles Ill. (marked movement, SS Roman "Lungreen & Wilson" dial)
     
  29. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804

    211.jpg 213.jpg

    3392078 - Metropolitan No. 1 (marked mvt, SS Roman "Elgin Natl Watch Co." dial)
     
  30. dweiss17

    dweiss17 Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    Would the cut out heart shaped bridge on the PL Elgin bring a premium?
     
  31. 49stude63

    49stude63 Registered User

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    Re: Private Label Research

    C D Peacock grade 246

    DSCF0001_zps856df0a6.jpg

    DSCF0005_zps0dd0457f.jpg
     
  32. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    #232 Fred Hansen, Sep 17, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2014
    I think it should, but not too big an amount. The early private labels with this are attractive, but not particularly scarce. All things equal I'd add some value to the watch with the heart shaped balance cock cutout, but not a real big premium.
     
  33. Amy Weber

    Amy Weber Newbie

    Nov 10, 2014
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    I came across this thread doing some genealogy research. Andrew Thalhofer was my great-great grandfather. He had a jewelry/watch shop in downtown Chicago starting in the 1870s. His daughter Laura married my great-grandfather Otto Weber. It's nice to see this watch. Here is a description of his shop that I found online:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=jHxQAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA137&ots=p2PEx9dCGj&dq=Andrew%20Thalhofer&pg=PA137#v:^nepage&q=Andrew%20Thalhofer&f=false
     
  34. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Research

    I recently acquired an Elgin with an almost the same CD Peacock dial as Claude's watch. My dial doesn't have the red minute markers. My Elgin is a 21J, grade 62.

    Tom


     
  35. Dave Chaplain

    Dave Chaplain Registered User
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    Re: Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804

    205409 - John C. Meyer New Orleans La. (marked mvt, SS Roman "National Watch Co." dial, hole in bal)
    5248097 -
    Phil Herbert Murphysboro Ill. (marked mvt and SS Roman dial)
    8540806 - Maier & Berkele / Atlanta Ga. (marked SS Arabic dial)
    9090027 - D. C. Jaccard St. Louis (marked mvt, SS Arabic "ELGIN" block dial)
    11822809 - C. D. Peacock (marked SS Arabic dial with photo impression added)
    13491011 - Constant St. Louis U.S.A. (marked mvt and) Mermod-Jaccard & King Co. St. Louis (SS Arabic dial)
    16472602 - Montgomery Bros. Los Angeles, Cal. (marked faux DS Arabic dial)
     
  36. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Nice watch!

    Isn't the serial number of this beauty 6469231; not 6469291?
     
  37. Luis Casillas

    Luis Casillas Registered User

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    Database dump. I have more details on many of these, so if there's one or two that catches your eye please ask. Note also that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence: I may have forgotten to note some detail about a watch. In particular, I'm sure that some watches in this list have cutout balance cocks but are not noted as such.

    Serial #Dial signatureMovement signatureSizeNotes
    30,011National Watch Co.London Watch Co.18NAWCC collection #84.83.23
    30,276C.S. MasseyCharles S. Massey, 625 Hamilton St., Allentown, Pa.18
    70,545NWCo (monogram)Grimes & Vonable, :???:, Mo.10
    75,184National Watch Co.P. Reed, Pittsburgh, Pa.18
    75,987National Watch Co.J. Jorg (?), Mansfield O.18
    115,206National Watch Co.Allison & Bedford, Ionia, Michigan18
    150,004National Watch Co.Fred Stein, Geneseo, Ill.18
    150,173National Watch Co.John Rose, Bay City, Mich.18
    150,739National Watch Co.Geo. W. Chatterton, Springfield, Ill.18
    187,049NWCo (monogram)H.F. Andrews, Sprasburg, Pa.10https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?113689-Elgin-10-size-No-205221&p=868052#post868052
    200,258National Watch Co.E.P. Roberts, Pittsburgh, PA18
    200,855National Watch Co.J. Jorg, Mansfield, Ohio18Cutout balance cock
    205,072Tucker's Granger WatchJ.W. Tucker & Co, San Francisco, Cal.10"June 1883" on cuvette
    205,074Tucker's Granger WatchJ.W. Tucker & Co, San Francisco, Cal.10
    205,221NWCo (monogram)John Mitchell (?), Alleghany, Pa.10
    205,224NWCo (monogram)John Mitsch, Alleghany, Pa.10
    205,409National Watch Co.John C. Meyer, New Orleans, La.18Dave Chaplain's watch. Cutout balance cock. Single sunk dial.
    205,427H. Silverthorn, Lynchburg, VAsame?18Double sunk dial. Cutout balance cock
    205,448Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.S&T Child, Philadelphia18Double sunk dial. Cutout balance cock
    245,233J.L. Jungermann, Victoria, B.C.J.L. Jungermann, Victoria, B.C.18
    245,451National Watch Co.Ins (?) Baft (?) Schneider, Cincinnati, O.18Photos unclear, movement signature from listing description.
    246,020National Watch Co.J.H. Rowell, Solon, Maine18
    254,776Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.:???:18Tom Huber's watch. Notable for having the watch's serial number written behind the dial, under the glaze
    303,034Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.John J. Margaux, Oxford (?), :???:.18
    303,344Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.A.J. Galentine, Bourbon, Ind.18Cutout balance cock
    303,384Alden Bros., Waterville, MaineAlden Bros., Waterville, Maine18Photo of woman printed on dial. Cutout balance cock.
    303,718National Watch Co.Go. Hagey & Son, Sterling, Ill.18Cutout balance cock
    304,804 or 308,804Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.Chas. Weigman, East Brady, PA18Cutout balance cock
    309,236Geo. H. Wood, Lowell, Mass.Geo. H. Wood, Lowell, Mass.18
    325,006Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.Walter W. :???:, Cannandaigua, NY18Cutout balance cock
    325,413C.F DufeuC. F. Dufeu, Chillicothe, Ohio18Cutout balance cock. NAWCC collection #94.1.11.
    325,546Forbes & FosterForbes & Foster, Springfield, Mass18Cutout balance cock
    325,693Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.J.E. Rosenthal, St. Louis18Cutout balance cock
    325,804"AG" (monogram)Alonzo Graves, Ludlow, VT18Cutout balance cock
    326,112E.N. Dennison, Westerly, R.I.E.N. Dennison, Westerly, R.I.18Cutout balance cock
    326,790Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.E.W. Reed, River Falls, Wis.18Cutout balance cock
    328,153Jos. KlasenerJos. Klasener, Jersey Shore, Pa.18Cutout balance cock
    328,597Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.H.D. Hall, Middletown, Conn.18Cutout balance cock
    375,338Mermod Jaccard & Co., St. Louis, Mo.:???:18NAWCC collection #90.43.8. I haven't seen a photo.
    376,081Tucker's Granger WatchJ.W. Tucker & Co., San Francisco, Cal.18Cutout balance cock. Stem wind, slide lever set.
    376,138Chas. Haas, Stockton, Cal.Chas. Haas, Stockton, Cal.18Cutout balance cock. Stem wind, slide lever set.
    376,143Chas. Haas, Stockton, Cal.Chas. Haas, Stockton, Cal.18Cutout balance cock. Stem wind, slide lever set.
    399,922Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.Geo. W. Biggs, Pittsburgh, PA.18
    521,905B Pet, W W True Flint Mich. :???::???:18Blurry photos, signature from listing description.
     
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  38. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Re: Private Label Research

    It's been awhile since anyone has posted to this thread, so let's get out those Elgin private labels! Here's one I just picked up...

    8541304 - 'J. W. Coatsworth & Co., Galena, Ill.', 18 size, grade 207, 7J, SS dial

    Elgin8541304Dial.jpg Elgin8541304Mvmt.jpg
     
  39. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    #239 Dave Coatsworth, Feb 22, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2017
    Re: Private Label Research

    Just picked up another J. W. Coatsworth. A 0-size, grade 198.

    Elgin8055002Case.jpg Elgin8055002Dial.jpg Elgin8055002Mvmt.jpg Elgin8055002OuterCase.jpg
     
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  40. Les

    Les New Member

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    Here is what I got as translation of the markings:
    Hanzi characters-left side "clothes / inside / pocket"; middle "profit / sharp/ benefit / well / carpet" (pronounced "yee li ghen" [Elgin]); right "pretty / flag / clock" ("pretty flag"="fah kee" or U.S. [Made in America]) Chinese called America "Pretty Flag" as they liked the Red/White/and Blue so it might mean American Clock? The attempt to make Chinese phonetic for Elgin in the one set of characters is interesting as no sense is made from the characters actual linguistic meaning...
    From other sources, there may of been 4-5 watches similar to this one created, a presentation one with no factory serial number (only a #4 under balance on movement) was given to Fredrik Lowe, Ambassador to China and he also had one other that he was to have presented to the then Emperor of China during his ambassadorship... Unknown whether any of the watches that may of been made like this survive. The watch I have does not have any numbering under the balance cock and unlike the Lowe watch it does have a serial #. Lots of interesting questions surround this watch and its position in what may of been a very limited special run!
     
  41. Dave Coatsworth

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    15071039 - 'The Tiffany Watch', 16-size, grade 313, 15 jewel. (Not for THE Tiffany, but for jeweler Calvin Tiffany of South Manchester, Connecticut.)

    Elgin15071039Dial.jpg Elgin15071039MVmt.jpg
     
  42. Brad Maisto

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    FC2E95AD-D3D8-436D-9CBE-C09860BCB51D.jpeg Elgin BWR 18S, serial 3,015,624 with a nice double-sunk Arabic numeral dial marked “George Arnold Feb. 8th, 1889”. Any ideas where George had his business? Thanks, Brad Maisto, KY Floral #44 Secretary
     
  43. Stephen Matusek

    Stephen Matusek Registered User
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    Here's one some may have seen on eBay recently. Model 1, grade 58. Geo W. Luce on the dial & movement, sn 328134, 18s, production year 1874.

    fullsizeoutput_63b.jpeg fullsizeoutput_632.jpeg
     
  44. Stephen Matusek

    Stephen Matusek Registered User
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    I also meant to say the watch above, Geo W. Luce was in Xenia, Ohio. The internet showed him as a jeweler & more than likely an inspector like many others with PL's.
    I tried to edit the above post earlier but my internet went out & by the time I was able to get back on, I didn't have the edit option anymore. No big deal, things happen.

    fullsizeoutput_644.jpeg
     
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  45. Dave Coatsworth

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    11586047 - H. V. Dalling, Woodstock, New Brunswick. 18 size, grade 240, 19J, DS dial

    Elgin11586047Dial.jpg Elgin11586047Mvmt.jpg
     
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  46. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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  47. Rick Hufnagel

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    Elgin grade 264, beautiful two tone movement. Dial says Wilfred lagrenade New Haven, Conn. Serial number 16482832

    IMG_20181118_194935899.jpg IMG_20181118_194926251.jpg
     
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  48. Rick Hufnagel

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    This is just a dial I'm sorry. It fits Elgin 0s. S. Nordlinger. Los Angeles cal

    IMG_20181118_194835923.jpg
     
  49. Dylon Bly

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    I am in possession of an elgin, jw Coatsworth pocket watch, serial number 292541, seven jewels, 8518505, it's 1890s I believe, with 11 diamonds total, with intricate floral pattern on case, and Origanal chain and clasp thing,w diamond. Sorry, I don't know too much about watches. I think I have something very nice though, just in comparison of pictures I've seen. If anyone might know of this watch, if love to learn more of it. I will post pictures too, I'm just not sure how yet on here. Thanks
     
  50. Dylon Bly

    Dylon Bly Registered User

    Dec 29, 2018
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    Elgin 292541 20181229_181237.jpg 20181229_181304.jpg
     

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