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(Elgin) Private Label Research

beta21

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Re: Private Label Research

I see Fred has recorded two earlier ones than the #150911 I have

Peter


 

Fred Hansen

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Re: Private Label Research

328299 - Geo W. Biggs, Pittsburgh PA (marked movement with heart shaped balance cock cutout, SS Roman dial marked "Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.")

121.jpg 123.jpg
 

Fred Hansen

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Re: Private Label Research

19022044 - Elite (marked 2-tone movement, DS Arabic "Elgin" dial)
 

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marking_time

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Re: Private Label Research

Fred Hansen listed 100 private label watches in post #196. I noticed several C.D. Peacock labeled watches. C.D. Peacock still exists and is the oldest retail jewelry store in Chicago, IL. Illinois Watch Co. also made some private label watches for them.
Mike Robie
 

Fred Hansen

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Re: Private Label Research

Serial 1214005, 16 size and marked on the dial and movement with "C.F. Greenwood & Bro, Norfolk, VA" ...
 

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Fred Hansen

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Serial 76510, 10 size and marked on the movement with "N. Simpson, Waverly Iowa" ...
 

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Les

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Just ran across this inquiry regarding the "Hanzi" engraved Elgin... I acquired the watch and it resides in my collection. Serial number is 75049. It was and is cased in a salesman sample style case. I got a translation of the Chinese Hanzi characters and they were interesting. If you would like to post the picture feel free.

A recent post about possible earliest private label Elgins stirred a memory of one posted about six years ago. I snagged the picture at the time but failed to request permission to use it and can't even recall which board it came from. Although I don't feel I can re-post the image I can describe it. It is a model 1, 18-size, full-plate, keywind movement that is at least jeweled on the top plate (burnished settings). The serial number appears to be in the 7-thousands although the image is rather fuzzy. Other markings on the plates (top plate and barrel bridge) are entirely in Kanji characters and I am guessing this was for the Chinese or Japanese market. A pagoda is engraved on the balance cock. Does anyone know who may own this watch today?

 

Jerry Treiman

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Re: Private Label Research

With the permission of the watch owner I am posting this photo from my archives. I hope I am not violating any rights of the unknown photographer.

Les, please share with us your translation of the markings.
 

Fred Hansen

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Re: Private Label Research

Reviving a great research thread here, a few more Elgin private labels ...


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10.jpg

6434502 - H.E. Adams, Sanford Fla (marked mvt, DS Arabic "H.E. Adams, Railway Standard" marked dial)


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8499003 - B.H. Steif Jewelry Co., RR Special, Nashville Tenn. (marked mvt and SS Arabic dial)


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8400005 - C.P. Kryhl, Santa Ana Cal (DS Arabic dial only, factory marked early 1st run Veritas)


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4329517 - Webb C. Ball, Cleveland O. (marked SS Arabic O'hara dial only, factory marked mvt)
 
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KennethE

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Re: Private Label Research

This is an 12 size Elgin, 7 jewel, serial number 16,715,054, No. 303 which dates to 1912. The dial says "Michon's Special". The movement is in the original inner and outer shipping case. I don't believe the watch has ever been wound 001.jpg 006.jpg 009.jpg
 

179

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Ken, can you confirm if it is printed special name on the label?
 

ejpontius

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Re: Private Label Research

From the picture it appears that it say "Special Name" in red ink, vertically on the right side starting just to the right of the 'G' in Pendant Setting, no?
 

Fred Hansen

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Re: Private Label Research

43.jpg

303270 - Jaccard & Co., Kansas City Mo. (marked mvt w/ cutout balance cock, SS Roman "Elgin Natl Watch Co." dial)
 

Fred Hansen

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Re: Private Label Research

71.jpg

72.jpg

15674239 - Paillard Non-Magnetic Watch Company, Chicago Ill. U.S.A. (signed sunk-seconds recessed-center dial only, movement completely unsigned but with non-magnetic balance and hairspring)
 

Luis Casillas

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Re: Private Label Research

Elgin J.E. Rosenthal, St. Louis, #325,693 (grade 55, c. 1874). This is another one of those heart-cutout balance cocks:

xyzzytom_191680 xyzzytom_191681

Another thing that I think is of interest is that it's got a very low serial number for the "wavy" balance bridge style (instead of the earlier "sharp" bridge in the first Elgins).
 
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Fred Hansen

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Re: Private Label Research

18.jpg

19.jpg

6469291 - F.A. Robbins Company (marked DS Arabic dial)
 
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Fred Hansen

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Re: Private Label Research

20.jpg

21.jpg

12739166 - Schaul & May, Atlanta GA (marked DS Arabic dial and movement)
 

Fred Hansen

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22.jpg

23.jpg

1397381 - Webb C. Ball, Cleveland O. (marked SS Arabic dial)
 

Luis Casillas

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Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804

Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804. This one has a monogrammed "AG" dial and the heart-shaped balance cock cutout.

xyzzytom_194972 xyzzytom_194973 xyzzytom_194974
 
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Fred Hansen

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Re: Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804

221.jpg 222.jpg

10737076 - Lungreen & Wilson, St. Charles Ill. (marked movement, SS Roman "Lungreen & Wilson" dial)
 

Fred Hansen

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Re: Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804

211.jpg 213.jpg

3392078 - Metropolitan No. 1 (marked mvt, SS Roman "Elgin Natl Watch Co." dial)
 

Fred Hansen

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Would the cut out heart shaped bridge on the PL Elgin bring a premium?
I think it should, but not too big an amount. The early private labels with this are attractive, but not particularly scarce. All things equal I'd add some value to the watch with the heart shaped balance cock cutout, but not a real big premium.
 
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Amy Weber

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Re: Private Label Research

13476096 - Thalhofer, Elgin, Loaner (Marked DS Arabic dial only, factory marked 21J movement with striped damaskeen)

Question of the day ... who was Thalhofer and where was he from?
I came across this thread doing some genealogy research. Andrew Thalhofer was my great-great grandfather. He had a jewelry/watch shop in downtown Chicago starting in the 1870s. His daughter Laura married my great-grandfather Otto Weber. It's nice to see this watch. Here is a description of his shop that I found online:
http://books.google.com/books?id=jH...pg=PA137#v=onepage&q=Andrew Thalhofer&f=false
 

Dave Chaplain

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Re: Elgin private label, Alonzo Graves, #325,804

205409 - John C. Meyer New Orleans La. (marked mvt, SS Roman "National Watch Co." dial, hole in bal)
5248097 -
Phil Herbert Murphysboro Ill. (marked mvt and SS Roman dial)
8540806 - Maier & Berkele / Atlanta Ga. (marked SS Arabic dial)
9090027 - D. C. Jaccard St. Louis (marked mvt, SS Arabic "ELGIN" block dial)
11822809 - C. D. Peacock (marked SS Arabic dial with photo impression added)
13491011 - Constant St. Louis U.S.A. (marked mvt and) Mermod-Jaccard & King Co. St. Louis (SS Arabic dial)
16472602 - Montgomery Bros. Los Angeles, Cal. (marked faux DS Arabic dial)
 

Kent

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Re: Private Label Research

...

6469291 - F.A. Robbins Company (marked DS Arabic dial)
Nice watch!

Isn't the serial number of this beauty 6469231; not 6469291?
 

Luis Casillas

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Database dump. I have more details on many of these, so if there's one or two that catches your eye please ask. Note also that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence: I may have forgotten to note some detail about a watch. In particular, I'm sure that some watches in this list have cutout balance cocks but are not noted as such.

Serial #Dial signatureMovement signatureSizeNotes
30,011National Watch Co.London Watch Co.18NAWCC collection #84.83.23
30,276C.S. MasseyCharles S. Massey, 625 Hamilton St., Allentown, Pa.18
70,545NWCo (monogram)Grimes & Vonable, :???:, Mo.10
75,184National Watch Co.P. Reed, Pittsburgh, Pa.18
75,987National Watch Co.J. Jorg (?), Mansfield O.18
115,206National Watch Co.Allison & Bedford, Ionia, Michigan18
150,004National Watch Co.Fred Stein, Geneseo, Ill.18
150,173National Watch Co.John Rose, Bay City, Mich.18
150,739National Watch Co.Geo. W. Chatterton, Springfield, Ill.18
187,049NWCo (monogram)H.F. Andrews, Sprasburg, Pa.10https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?113689-Elgin-10-size-No-205221&p=868052#post868052
200,258National Watch Co.E.P. Roberts, Pittsburgh, PA18
200,855National Watch Co.J. Jorg, Mansfield, Ohio18Cutout balance cock
205,072Tucker's Granger WatchJ.W. Tucker & Co, San Francisco, Cal.10"June 1883" on cuvette
205,074Tucker's Granger WatchJ.W. Tucker & Co, San Francisco, Cal.10
205,221NWCo (monogram)John Mitchell (?), Alleghany, Pa.10
205,224NWCo (monogram)John Mitsch, Alleghany, Pa.10
205,409National Watch Co.John C. Meyer, New Orleans, La.18Dave Chaplain's watch. Cutout balance cock. Single sunk dial.
205,427H. Silverthorn, Lynchburg, VAsame?18Double sunk dial. Cutout balance cock
205,448Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.S&T Child, Philadelphia18Double sunk dial. Cutout balance cock
245,233J.L. Jungermann, Victoria, B.C.J.L. Jungermann, Victoria, B.C.18
245,451National Watch Co.Ins (?) Baft (?) Schneider, Cincinnati, O.18Photos unclear, movement signature from listing description.
246,020National Watch Co.J.H. Rowell, Solon, Maine18
254,776Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.:???:18Tom Huber's watch. Notable for having the watch's serial number written behind the dial, under the glaze
303,034Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.John J. Margaux, Oxford (?), :???:.18
303,344Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.A.J. Galentine, Bourbon, Ind.18Cutout balance cock
303,384Alden Bros., Waterville, MaineAlden Bros., Waterville, Maine18Photo of woman printed on dial. Cutout balance cock.
303,718National Watch Co.Go. Hagey & Son, Sterling, Ill.18Cutout balance cock
304,804 or 308,804Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.Chas. Weigman, East Brady, PA18Cutout balance cock
309,236Geo. H. Wood, Lowell, Mass.Geo. H. Wood, Lowell, Mass.18
325,006Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.Walter W. :???:, Cannandaigua, NY18Cutout balance cock
325,413C.F DufeuC. F. Dufeu, Chillicothe, Ohio18Cutout balance cock. NAWCC collection #94.1.11.
325,546Forbes & FosterForbes & Foster, Springfield, Mass18Cutout balance cock
325,693Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.J.E. Rosenthal, St. Louis18Cutout balance cock
325,804"AG" (monogram)Alonzo Graves, Ludlow, VT18Cutout balance cock
326,112E.N. Dennison, Westerly, R.I.E.N. Dennison, Westerly, R.I.18Cutout balance cock
326,790Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.E.W. Reed, River Falls, Wis.18Cutout balance cock
328,153Jos. KlasenerJos. Klasener, Jersey Shore, Pa.18Cutout balance cock
328,597Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.H.D. Hall, Middletown, Conn.18Cutout balance cock
375,338Mermod Jaccard & Co., St. Louis, Mo.:???:18NAWCC collection #90.43.8. I haven't seen a photo.
376,081Tucker's Granger WatchJ.W. Tucker & Co., San Francisco, Cal.18Cutout balance cock. Stem wind, slide lever set.
376,138Chas. Haas, Stockton, Cal.Chas. Haas, Stockton, Cal.18Cutout balance cock. Stem wind, slide lever set.
376,143Chas. Haas, Stockton, Cal.Chas. Haas, Stockton, Cal.18Cutout balance cock. Stem wind, slide lever set.
399,922Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.Geo. W. Biggs, Pittsburgh, PA.18
521,905B Pet, W W True Flint Mich. :???::???:18Blurry photos, signature from listing description.
 

Dave Coatsworth

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Re: Private Label Research

It's been awhile since anyone has posted to this thread, so let's get out those Elgin private labels! Here's one I just picked up...

8541304 - 'J. W. Coatsworth & Co., Galena, Ill.', 18 size, grade 207, 7J, SS dial

Elgin8541304Dial.jpg Elgin8541304Mvmt.jpg
 
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Les

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Feb 14, 2007
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Re: Private Label Research

With the permission of the watch owner I am posting this photo from my archives. I hope I am not violating any rights of the unknown photographer.

Les, please share with us your translation of the markings.
Here is what I got as translation of the markings:
Hanzi characters-left side "clothes / inside / pocket"; middle "profit / sharp/ benefit / well / carpet" (pronounced "yee li ghen" [Elgin]); right "pretty / flag / clock" ("pretty flag"="fah kee" or U.S. [Made in America]) Chinese called America "Pretty Flag" as they liked the Red/White/and Blue so it might mean American Clock? The attempt to make Chinese phonetic for Elgin in the one set of characters is interesting as no sense is made from the characters actual linguistic meaning...
From other sources, there may of been 4-5 watches similar to this one created, a presentation one with no factory serial number (only a #4 under balance on movement) was given to Fredrik Lowe, Ambassador to China and he also had one other that he was to have presented to the then Emperor of China during his ambassadorship... Unknown whether any of the watches that may of been made like this survive. The watch I have does not have any numbering under the balance cock and unlike the Lowe watch it does have a serial #. Lots of interesting questions surround this watch and its position in what may of been a very limited special run!
 

Brad Maisto

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FC2E95AD-D3D8-436D-9CBE-C09860BCB51D.jpeg Elgin BWR 18S, serial 3,015,624 with a nice double-sunk Arabic numeral dial marked “George Arnold Feb. 8th, 1889”. Any ideas where George had his business? Thanks, Brad Maisto, KY Floral #44 Secretary
 
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Stephen Matusek

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I also meant to say the watch above, Geo W. Luce was in Xenia, Ohio. The internet showed him as a jeweler & more than likely an inspector like many others with PL's.
I tried to edit the above post earlier but my internet went out & by the time I was able to get back on, I didn't have the edit option anymore. No big deal, things happen.

fullsizeoutput_644.jpeg
 

musicguy

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Dylon Bly

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I am in possession of an elgin, jw Coatsworth pocket watch, serial number 292541, seven jewels, 8518505, it's 1890s I believe, with 11 diamonds total, with intricate floral pattern on case, and Origanal chain and clasp thing,w diamond. Sorry, I don't know too much about watches. I think I have something very nice though, just in comparison of pictures I've seen. If anyone might know of this watch, if love to learn more of it. I will post pictures too, I'm just not sure how yet on here. Thanks
 

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