Elgin Grade 341 Question

[Robert J. Moore]

Was the Elgin Grade 341, 17j., size 16s, HC the only HC model in this size (also marked BWR) that was lever set? I see many three finger bridge, HC size, 16s examples that are pendant set.
Totally unrelated, In Gilberts watch price guide there is a vague reference to a Elgin size 18s, 23j., 3/4 plate, HC movement. 3 stars that indicates upwards to 350 may have been produced. No grade is listed. Is this an up jeweled Grade 274 or just a ghost that nobody has a info on?
Thanks.

 

[Nathan Moore]

Robert -

Correct. The Grade 341 is the only grade Elgin produced in the 16-Size Model 8. The estimated total production rests at 1,500.

Elgin National Watch Co. Size 16s Model 8 : Overview & Production| Pocket Watch Database

Info, specs, and value American antique pocket watches, with serial number lookups for manufacturers such as Elgin, Illinois, Waltham, and Hamilton

pocketwatchdatabase.com

 

[John Cote]

Totally unrelated, In Gilberts watch price guide there is a vague reference to a Elgin size 18s, 23j., 3/4 plate, HC movement. 3 stars that indicates upwards to 350 may have been produced. No grade is listed. Is this an up jeweled Grade 274 or just a ghost that nobody has a info on?

Regarding the Gilbert/Engle/Shugart book in general, there are a lot of examples of "ghost" watches. One of the classics is the Illinois, 18s, 25j, Bunn Special. There are others including the Elgin you reference. I have never said that these ghost watches don't exist because I suppose that someday one might be found to disprove it. That said, I have never seen the elusive 25j Bunn Special nor the 23j 3/4 plate 18s Elgin or any of the other "ghost" watches. I will admit to being slightly less sure about not seeing the Elgin but I am pretty sure.

I have heard these ghosts were purposely put and left in the book so that the authors or the publisher could tell if someone directly copied all of their data. Who knows. I asked Cooksey about it when he was alive and I don't remember getting a great answer.

Also, don't pay much attention to the "star ratings" in the Gilbert/Engle/Shugart book. At least don't pay much attention in so far as they indicate some real number of watches produced. I think they are more a qualitative rather than a quantitative indication of rarity.