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Elgin convertible 3 finger bridge

model1857guy

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I have this Elgin convertible that I'm eventually going to get around to fixing, doesn't need much, just need hands, a correct bow and a good cleaning and oiling.

My question is, I see a fair amount of convertibles out there. But almost all I see are regular 3/4 plate, I don't seem to see many of these 3 finger bridge convertibles. How uncommon are they?

20171120_145427.jpg 20171120_145455.jpg 20171120_145538.jpg
 

musicguy

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Elgin,org says 16000 made so not uncommon but the Grade 86 is in high demand among collectors
It's good that yours came in a case because they don't fit a standard case.
[ELGIN] Online Elgin Database

1887_S_F_Myers_Supplement.jpg
Rob
 

Brad Maisto

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The Elgin convertibles are interesting movements and was a concept ahead of its time. There was an Indiana Chapter 18 member that got me hooked on them. Typically they are not in true convertible cases and when you try to find a replacement minute hand, good luck as the hole required to fit to the arbor is unusually small as compared to other 16S watches. Elgin also made the convertible in a gilt plate grade. Most convertibles that were made have solid gold screws in the balance wheel, which in my humble opinion made them a higher grade watch. You do have a nice example of an Elgin convertible.
Brad Maisto, Kentucky Floral #44 Secretary
 

model1857guy

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Thanks! I have one of the gilt ones, grade 49 in its original coin case.
20171102_105116.jpg

The Elgin convertibles are interesting movements and was a concept ahead of its time. There was an Indiana Chapter 18 member that got me hooked on them. Typically they are not in true convertible cases and when you try to find a replacement minute hand, good luck as the hole required to fit to the arbor is unusually small as compared to other 16S watches. Elgin also made the convertible in a gilt plate grade. Most convertibles that were made have solid gold screws in the balance wheel, which in my humble opinion made them a higher grade watch. You do have a nice example of an Elgin convertible.
Brad Maisto, Kentucky Floral #44 Secretary
 
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Nathan Moore

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The 3-Finger Elgin Interchangeable model was produced in four grades:

91
21-Jewel, Nickel, Adjusted to Positions, Temperature, and Isochronism
1 Run: 942,001-943,000
Production: ~500
(Evidence supports that only first 500 of run manufactured)

90
13-Jewels, Gilt, Unadjusted
1 Run: 941,001-942,000
Production: ~1,000
(Evidence supports that the entire run may not have been manufactured)

86
15-Jewels, Nickel, Adjusted
16 Runs Spanning 701,001 to 6,337,000
Production; ~15,700
(Evidence supports that only first 700 of last run manufactured)

85
15-Jewels, Gilt, Adjusted
3 Runs Spanning 700,001-1,214,000
Production: ~3,000
(Evidence supports that the entire last run may not have been manufactured)

Grade 91 is the most collectible grade in the 16-Size Model 2 production and was one of Elgin's premier movements at the time. In comparison, the Grade 86 production was more extensive.
 
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Tom McIntyre

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Grade 91 is the most collectible grade in the 16-Size Model 2 production and
This may be true, but apart from the carved plate to give the 3 finger appearance, the 72 and 91 are essentially the same. Some collectors may actually prefer the 3/4 plate to the 3 finger bridge.
Back.jpg CaseMark.jpg Front.jpg Face.jpg Movement.jpg
 

Nathan Moore

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This may be true, but apart from the carved plate to give the 3 finger appearance, the 72 and 91 are essentially the same. Some collectors may actually prefer the 3/4 plate to the 3 finger bridge.
Agreed. The Grade 72 would certainly be considered the most collectible16-Size Model 1 and compliments the Grade 91 excellently. Beautiful movement.
 

musicguy

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If anyone ever wanted to donate a Grade 72 or a 91 to me that would be nice,



Rob
 
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thesnark17

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90
13-Jewels, Gilt, Unadjusted
1 Run: 941,001-942,000
Production: ~1,000
(Evidence supports that the entire run may not have been manufactured)
I was reviewing this thread today, and realized I had just seen a grade 90 movement on ebay.

13 jewels, gilt, not marked adjusted, simple regulator: SN 941,782.

Based on that, at least 800 should have been manufactured.
 

Fred Hansen

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91
21-Jewel, Nickel, Adjusted to Positions, Temperature, and Isochronism
1 Run: 942,001-943,000
Production: ~500
(Evidence supports that only first 500 of run manufactured)
I’ve yet to see evidence of more than the first 350 from the Grade 91 run being made. Can you show any example from the 942351 to 942500 serial range?

I’ve probably seen 50 or more examples from 942001 to 942350 range, but seen zero from anything over 942350.
 

Nathan Moore

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I’ve yet to see evidence of more than the first 350 from the Grade 91 run being made. Can you show any example from the 942351 to 942500 serial range?

I’ve probably seen 50 or more examples from 942001 to 942350 range, but seen zero from anything over 942350.
That post is from years ago and should be updated accordingly. My current estimates for Grade 91 align with the 350 figure, with the necessary note of unusual anomalies found at #942854 and #942969 (statistical support, not seen or verified).

For the sake of updating the thread, here are the current production estimates for the interchangeable bridge model:

91
21-Jewel, Nickel, Adjusted to Positions, Temperature, and Isochronism
1 Run: 942,001-943,000
Production: ~350
(Evidence supports that only first 350 of run manufactured, statistical anomalies at 942854 and 942969)

90
13-Jewels, Gilt, Unadjusted
1 Run: 941,001-942,000
Production: ~800
(Evidence supports that only first 800 of the run manufactured)

86
15-Jewels, Nickel, Adjusted
16 Runs Spanning 701,001 to 6,337,000
Production; ~15,700
(Evidence supports that only first 700 of last run manufactured)

85
15-Jewels, Gilt, Adjusted
3 Runs Spanning 700,001-1,214,000
Production: ~2,100
(Evidence supports that only first 100 of last run may have been manufactured, statistical anomalies at 1213595 and 1213703)

This yields approximately 18,950 bridge model interchangeable movements produced, with the Grade 86 accounting for 82.8% of production.
 

Fred Hansen

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Thanks and will be interesting to see if those anomalies ever surface as actual examples or if they may be reporting errors.
 

Nathan Moore

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Thanks and will be interesting to see if those anomalies ever surface as actual examples or if they may be reporting errors.
Agreed. I should clarify that those are not reported serial numbers. The anomalies are derived from a statistical analysis that indicates probable and possible surviving examples within a run based on volume of unique lookups and sequential clustering. Think of it as an adapted histogram for surviving artifacts with serialized production.

Admittedly, the existence of anomalies in these particular runs is difficult to explain and likely a result of noise, but they should be noted.
 

musicguy

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Tom McIntyre

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That is a nice image. Here is the 91 from my collection. It no longer belongs to me. You can see all its images and its fate at this link. AWCo Web
1620696908281.png
 

musicguy

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Here is a recent find Elgin Grade 90 16s 13j, just needs a good cleaning.

20210805_152019.jpg 20210805_152109.jpg





Rob
 
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musicguy

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I just wanted to share with you the Elgin grade 90 3FB above that is now cased. It's hard enough
finding an open face interchangable appropriate case but finding a hunting case for an interchangable movement is even harder. While looking for cases I did get lucky and find two HC's for interchangables(only one of the cases is shown below). This particular movement in my opinion
needed a very nice case. I hope the photos do it justice.



20211017_140641.jpg

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Rob
 
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musicguy

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Thanks Richiec

Rob
 

luvsthetick

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It's hard enough
finding an open face interchangable appropriate case but finding a hunting case for an interchangable movement is even harder.
So true.........

I love to see someone casing Elgin convertibles instead of scraping the cases.

If your other case is half as nice as the one shown you definitely are lucky.

Congrats Rob
 
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Here's mine. The dial and hands arent legit from this model but...

20200418_110022-1.jpg

20200418_110100.jpg

Time ago I wrote this article about the grade 86 for the Spanish reader.

 

musicguy

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If your other case is half as nice as the one shown you definitely are lucky.
You are actually right it is about half as nice as the other one, but
for $40 it still is very nice.


I needed to reconfigure(from open face to Hunting) this convertible
to fit in the Hunting case and it's fairly easy to do.
20211020_165140.jpg 20211020_165236.jpg

20211020_165027.jpg


Rob
 
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Clint Geller

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I am curious why the upper train wheel structures on these movements are called "bridges." Would not "cocks" be the proper term, inasmuch as they are cantilevered with support only on one side?
 

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