Elgin Case and Dial question

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Stann, Mar 9, 2003.

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  1. Stann

    Stann Guest

    I saw this item on E-Bay:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2620680727&category=10319
    From the Pixs, the Case and Dial on this Father Time look to be from a BWR.

    I know that some of the later BWR's were cased at the Factory, and those that were cased came with a single sunk dial (at least to my best knowledge).

    I may be mistaken but I thought that all Father Times came with a DS Dial.

    If I'm wrong on these assumptions please set me straight.

    Thanks,
    Stan
     
  2. Stann

    Stann Guest

    I saw this item on E-Bay:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2620680727&category=10319
    From the Pixs, the Case and Dial on this Father Time look to be from a BWR.

    I know that some of the later BWR's were cased at the Factory, and those that were cased came with a single sunk dial (at least to my best knowledge).

    I may be mistaken but I thought that all Father Times came with a DS Dial.

    If I'm wrong on these assumptions please set me straight.

    Thanks,
    Stan
     
  3. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Silver Member

    Aug 26, 2000
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    Stan:

    You are correct. As the offering says, the watch dates to about 1915. The case that its in was introduced on the "New B.W. Raymond" in 1923. See the introductory ad at:
    http://elginwatches.org/scans/elgin_ads/1923/m_NewBWR_10-1923.html
    (you should copy this link and paste it in your browser address bar since directly linking to this website from the NAWCC Message Board is not possible). Also, yes, the Father Time grade was furnished with a double-sunk dial.

    Also, note that the bow is incorrect for the case. As the ad shows, the proper bow arches upward at the center, coming to a point. The bow on the watch in the offering is almost horizontal at the center and lacks the point.

    Its possible that some later 19-jewel BWR's, grade 455, came in these cases, but I'm not aware of any documentation that says one way or the other. Also, this style case may have been available, from Elgin, for use as "original recases" or just for sale, as a number of different watches, not necessarily Elgin-made, have shown up in these cases. The non-Elgin watchers were without other case-screw marks, indicationg that they were the only watches ever in the case. In this instance, the case-screws are in the same locations, so it can't be determined if this is an "original recase" or not.

    Kent

    P.S. I've sent a note to the seller mentioning that the watch is being discussed here.

    That guy down in Georgia :)

    [This message was edited by Kent on March 09, 2003 at 11:20.]
     
  4. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Silver Member

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    Here's the "interesting" reply I received from the seller:

     
  5. strd34ford

    strd34ford Registered User

    Jun 12, 2002
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    that sounds like a great idea. maybe the texas attorney general would be very interested in some of slicks false advertising. maybe we should make this a true statement instead of the usual lies and advise the attorney general of texas.
    fred
     
  6. Spike

    Spike Guest

    Authenticity’s a legitimate standard to apply when considering a watch. But it isn’t the only legitimate standard. Consider aesthetics, for example. This is a good-looking package: a clean-looking Father Time movement (with regulator dead-center in a watch posited to keep good time) in a re-case that handsomely (including the bale) complements the relatively clean if not original dial and bold hands. Maybe it does deserve an F in authenticity; I give it an A in aesthetics. How bad is that?
     
  7. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Aug 26, 2000
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    Annie said:

     

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