Elgin B.W. Raymond S/N 30854

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Well, I picked this up a few weeks ago and the bulk of my watch knowledge is on Waltham's so I was hoping to get some more information on this watch. How original are the dial and hands to the movement? I'm pretty sure the case is original, I don't see other screw marks. The movement does still have the the locating pin as well. I'd like to replace at least the hour hand as it has a bit of a bend to it, possibly all 3 since they have lost most all of their bluing. Or the 3rd option of re-bluing the current ones but how hard would these hands be to come by today? Would it be possible for Waltham key wind hands to fit this too? Thanks everyone.

30854.jpg 30854-2.jpg 30854-3.jpg
 

Dave Coatsworth

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I have a B. W. Raymond that is about 10,000 later than yours. The dial is identical as is the second hand. Mine has fleur-de-lis hands, but they did vary hand styles in those days. My guess is that the hour hand on yours is the original and the minute hand is a replacement, but that is just a guess. Nice looking watch overall!

Talk to @Marty101 about hands. He's the expert.
 
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I agree with Dave on the hands. The minute is incorrect. The minute hand is pointing directly at the 1 numeral, so it is hard to judge it's length. From the spade at the tip it looks to be short. I would be on the lookout for a open morning glory key wind minute hand of the proper length. It is easier to open these square holes than to close them, though a small amount is possible. The plates look to be in great condition and with a little fine tuning will be a very nice watch. The dial is fine.
 
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John Cote

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I have had a lot of these watches with the "morning glory hands." The minute hand was always the first to break so they are a little harder to find but you will eventually find one. For the rest....it looks pretty right. Nice watch.
 

richiec

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That bend is not that bad, I think you can carefully reform it, just a little at a time, usually I run a pair of tweezers up the shank carefully.
 

Keith R...

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I'd say Waltham's 18 size key wind hands would fit depending on dial, for proper
distance, you can double check with Marty.

Many a key wind Elgin sported Moon hands as well as Fleur- de-lis hands. See the
Favorite hand sets thread, just below yours on this page.

Shown 1st pic, BW Raymond and 2nd pic, HH Taylor, 1873.
I'd say the BW Raymond closer to 1871, (it has the correct National dial).

Keith R...

100_2710 (800x600).jpg 100_3564 (800x600).jpg
 
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ben_hutcherson

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I owned 19,xxx at one time(not deliberately obscuring the SN, just don't remember it). As others have said, the dial looks original and correct. Mine had spades, but I don't think they were original-especially considering that the guy who sold it to me later sold me all of his tools and parts, and there was(still is) a factory tin full of 18s KW hands identical to the ones in the watch in one of the drawers of the bench :)

I'd agree on open morning glory looking good, but I've also seen them with fleur de lis.

I'm a Waltham guy also, but to me National BW Raymonds are ALWAYS a treat to work on. The gilding-if in good shape-is beautiful. Also, every one I've taken apart has gone back together with the pivots just falling in to place and little to no "tickling" to get them to drop. Not only does that make the watch easy to put back together, but it also speaks to the quality of the finish on the watch.
 

Keith R...

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BTW, type this in at the magnifying glass by Tom Huber.

An early Elgin watch & dial.

Keith R...
 

Lee Passarella

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The discussion about hands makes me wonder how terrible the hands are on my wonderful Columbus Railway King (with the celebrated choo-choo on the dial). When I bought it, it was missing the minute hand, so the guy I had fix it installed something from his stash. The hour hand is of a different design; I don't know or remember what that pattern is called. Should I try to replace the minute hand, or am I OK with the replacement, do you think? And if I were to replace it, how far afield would I have to look for a replacement?

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Kent

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... Should I try to replace the minute hand, or am I OK with the replacement, do you think? ...
As long as the movement is going to stay in that case you may as well leave the minute hand alone.

If you do want to so something about it, the hour hand is going to be difficult to match. You might consider replacing both hands with a pair of fleur-de-lis style hands (the ones shown on the Waltham aren't a matched pair) or morning glory hands. A pair of spade hands would also look nice.

18S_17J_CS_6025952_D1.jpg Columbus_16S_17J_368420_No12_D_Luca_DiCecco.jpg Columbus_No_97_114968.jpg
 
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