American Elgin 16s convertible question

[meatlips01]

After completing a previous Elgin Veritas restoration, I've decided to move ahead with some of my other projects. Particularly this old girl:


I actually had one of these sitting in a can for who knows how many years. It was missing that spring fork, so I bought this movement and another 7j version. My old movement actually also needs a mainspring, so I put it aside for now and decided to focus on this one since it's intact. BTW. its an Elgin 16s convertible with 2860270 as the serial. She's only a 15j, but I think she's crazy pretty and really old. Circa 1888 in fact.


Seen here with the parts movement I also bought

If you don't know what a convertible movement of this style is, essentially I can move that stem to the three o'clock position by simply moving around some winding gears under the plate. So it's convertible from a pendant style to hunter style. It's pretty ingenious and I'm digging it a lot.

Anyway, I'm looking at the Elgin experts on this forum to see if you can answer this question: If you notice this movement has a male stem that sticks out. All of the pocket watch cases I have do not have a female input in them to accept this for a crown. Basically, I'm wondering what sort of case or case tube/crown I need for this movement so I can actually case it up when I've completed overhauling it.

Does anyone happen to know what it needs? Pictures would be extremely helpful too...

 

[musicguy]

If you notice this movement has a male stem that sticks out. All of the pocket watch cases I have do not have a female input in them to accept this for a crown.

Yes they need a special case(that already has a female stem) or one where a
female stem can be added(some have a little screw in the case and the stems can
removed and switched to the right one)..

The grade 3 and grade 4 plus a few others have the same female stem
and should fit.


Rob

 

[meatlips01]

I actually just posted a question about this movement. I have a Grade 50 model 1 (2860270) that I'm trying to figure out what kind of case it requires. Seeing how it has a male stem, what does the crown assembly on a case even look like?

 

[Rick Hufnagel]

You need an old model Elgin case with a female stem. So do many other people... And they are not easy to find... especially nice ones.

The Elgin 16s model 1-5, Hampden 16s model 1-3 and Illinois 16s model 1-3 all take the same size case and it's a touch larger than the standard, common ones seen from around the turn of the century onward. Some of them have male or female stems, some like the convertibles will have different lever slots... Any really nice cases are usually purchased at a premium to case up one of the high grade convertibles.

The lever slot on these cases is at a slightly different location than the standard sized. So look for the lever slot, a female stem and the old style large pendant.


I know it's tempting to rip apart a watch for the case... But it's seriously difficult to locate an original model 3 Elgin. There are loose cases out there.

 

[musicguy]

Here is a female stem I just grabbed from my parts box to show you.





Rob

 

[luvsthetick]

Just a little addition info.

As stated, cases for an Elgin convertible are hard to find.

Don't limit your search to just hunter cases. I find open face cases easier to spot if you can see the body under the bezel. Cases these movements fit in often have two factory lever slots. The movement can either be mounted as an open face watch or a sidewinder. Almost all of these cases will have a fixed stem (stem held in place by a screw). Many of these cases already have the female stem required for the convertible movement.

In my opinion they are great for these Elgin movements. Here is one of mine.

Good luck with your case hunt.

 

[meatlips01]

Here is a female stem I just grabbed from my parts box to show you.

View attachment 678181 View attachment 678182



Rob

Is that stem the same as this part?
I found this over at Dave's Watch Parts and it's
supposed to be for 16/18 size movements. The only thing
is I don't have any idea how this would fit into a case unless
that case is made specifically to fit this type of stem.

 

[musicguy]

I removed the photo because we do not allow posting
other peoples copyright photos on the forum, but you can post
a link to the part. Thanks for understanding.


Thanks
Rob

 

[meatlips01]

Man, it's really hard finding a good case for this. Even on the eBays. Most of the cases that do turn up are hunter style which is fine. So far the best case I tried to get went for $85. I missed out on the final bid since I was driving when the auction ended.

I did wind up with a coin silver hunter for way too much money that looks pretty beat up. It polishes nice, but it's a bit dented up and I'm not enthused with how loose the cover is at the hinge. The movement in it is a bit beat up, so I'd swap it out and put it away for parts. I'm going to clean this guy up and see what I can do about the dents, but the case overall seems ok. I am still holding out hope I can pick up an nice gold-filled case for a good price.



This was tarnished to heck, but I just gave it some wubbies with a paper towel and some toothpaste. Always a fantastic high grit polishing compound. When I take this apart I'm going to give it a real good polishing with a dremel tool and some legit buffing compound. It is a shame though, it has some really interesting engine turning on it that has been worn off over the years. This case would have been gorgeous when it was new.

I'm still going to keep my eye out for a nice gold filled case, but as I mentioned before, the open faces convertible cases have been almost non-existent on the eBays.

On a different note, it is tempting to just remove the sleeve out of an existing case, drill the hole for the screw and then thread it. I got those female stems now, so I imagine it could be done. But then it wouldn't be original and it would be bootleg. Also I'm not sure it could be done since these female stems seem to be a bit wider.

 

[musicguy]

Nice that you found one so quickly even if it's not in as good a shape
as you might have wanted. Cases can easily (and cost effectively) be repaired.
Older used cases have a lot of character and I mean that in a positive way.


I got very lucky with finding this open face convertible/interchangeable case.




Rob