Edgar Henn miniature

KurtinSA

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Is there another hole like that on the other side? Maybe others can explain what they are for...there has been some discussion about these clocks before. Here's a picture of my Euramca base. I have two of those opening, each with some kind of brass rod in them. The one of the right in my picture seems to be sprung as I can push down on it a bit. I suppose that this has something to do with a pendulum lock mechanism, but I really don't know. Mine doesn't work in any case.

Kurt

EuramcaBase.jpg
 

MuseChaser

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It is, indeed, part of the pendulum locking device. The horizontal lever rotates to the right, indicated by the red arrow in the pic below, raising the pendulum keeper indicated by the purple arrow. The post, indicated by the yellow arrow, is spring-loaded so that it can be pushed down far enough for the lever to travel over and past it. The post then springs back up to retain the lever in locked position. The locking assembly needs to be adjusted by loosening a locknut under the base and rotating the center spindle until the lever has the correct amount of travel. 20210512_163554.jpg
 

Ken M

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Nope, just the one. The rod on the locking mechanism is probably stored there, though the dome clears that rob. Mine works (just got it today), but at rest and level the pendulum hits the cup. And if anything, my suspension unit is a hair short, not long. I took the locking mechanism off for now, I'll get to it. It's not taking off with flying colors. Got a good impulse one way, and a little umph the other way. I'm going to post a couple videos later comparing it to a Kundo standard movement I cleaned up yesterday. Super duper impulses both directions, and at the exact position. This Henn can't (or won't) do that. I'm wondering if someone messed with the concentric nut? I don't know what that thing does yet, but I'm suspicious..
 

Wayne A

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The pin is for the pendulum lift lock, you may have parts missing.. Looks a little different than the one I have which has the pin spring loaded. Still its in the right place to be the lift lock.
My clock has a very high rotation 500deg or so and its 7.5bpm.

20191017_074144.jpg
 

Ken M

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Wow! Lively little thing, I'd love it. It calls for .023", I only have a .024" on hand, not sure if it will run on that?
 

KurtinSA

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It calls for .023", I only have a .024" on hand, not sure if it will run on that?
Do you mean 0.0023 and 0.0024? It will run, but the thicker spring will make the clock run fast all things considered. But you can thin down the 0.0024 spring if you can't adjust the speed.

Kurt
 

Ken M

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Yea, that's what I meant! Never tried to thin a spring. I don't have a measuring tool that fine...yet. I don't care if it runs fast, I just want it to run. I toor it down, I'm stripping it and making it pretty. Maybe that's all she wants, a makeover. Also, looks like something is missing from that bottom of that thing. Oh well, that thing doesn't make it run.
 

whatgoesaround

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There will be info on thinning if you run a search. You need to kind of a creep up on it , but it is well within your capabilities. I assume you have it in beat? Do not mess with the eccentric unless it is obvious that it has been tampered with; leave it as your last resort.
 

Ken M

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Not in beat. Wouldn't run, so I took it apart and started a makeover. Get back to business tomorrow. No, I won't mess with that thing, whatever it's called. I thought eccentric was a personality trait! Guess it's both.
ADJECTIVE
  1. (of a person or their behavior) unconventional and slightly strange.
    "my favorite aunt is very eccentric"
    synonyms:
    unconventional · uncommon · abnormal · irregular · aberrant · anomalous ·
    [more]
  2. technical
    (of a thing) not placed centrally or not having its axis or other part placed centrally.
NOUN
  1. a person of unconventional and slightly strange views or behavior.
    "he enjoys a colorful reputation as an engaging eccentric"
    synonyms:
    oddity · odd fellow · unorthodox person · character · individualist · individual ·
    [more]
  2. a disc or wheel mounted eccentrically on a revolving shaft in order to transform rotation into backward-and-forward motion, e.g. a cam in an internal combustion engine.

 

Ken M

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Can someone tell me what's behind the hour pipe on this thing? When I took the dial and hands off, I was very careful to get whatever is behind it. I thought I saw something in there, but when I got it off, there was nothing. But then, later, I find a little black lock washer in my parts bin! It's bigger than the shaft, it doesn't fit tight. Someone put two of those little cups over the minute hand, seems to produce enough tension. I don't know what this black lockwasher is or where it came from.. Wondering if it would work on my Master!
 

Ken M

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Alright, I don't get this thing. Other clocks, if I'm close to getting it in beat, or even if I'm not close, It will bounce around for 15-20 minutes. This thing, it's like someone has their foot on the brakes, 5-10 minutes, it's dead. I just took it apart again. Cleaned everything, every tooth, every hole, every pivot, palettes, everything. Everything appears to be free, nothing binding, palettes aren't crashing into anything, nothing. It's hanging up somewhere. If I wind it a couple clicks without escape wheel and anchor, it will roll nicely, come to a stop, and a minute later, it rolls a little more. Where should I look?
 

Wayne A

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Could be many things. A video of the escapement in action including fork would be helpfull.

With only the anchor removed does the escape wheel spin with 1 or 2 clicks?
Could try running without the hands and motion works installed.
Check for rubs around the pendulum.
Fork to pin have clearance at 180 deg turn from center?

Wayne
 

Ken M

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I don't have a face on it. The pendulum is free. There is light between pin and fork. I'll set the beat, when I come back after it's dead, and restart it, the beat is off again. The first video is the "best", the other two the beat is way off again, but they are uploaded so I'll include them.



 

Wayne A

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The first video has the beat considerably out of adjustment. Another thing I see is in all the video's is that the pins arch of movement is not equal for each direction and it needs to be. Cause could be the pin is bent or the pallets are out of adjustment to make it swing more to one side, or quite possibly both.

Adding a pic of how I like to check the anchor for proper alingment using a protractor as a square.

20200713_094849.jpg
 
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Ken M

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Thanks Wayne. I took two pics. I tried to get a clear pic of the palettes, my phone sucks. The other of the pin. Pin looks good, I think that palettes do to, but my eyes may deceive me.

20210513_193507.jpg 20210513_193534.jpg
 

Ken M

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As for the beat, as I said, it's different every time I kick it off. It will be fine, I think, then when I come back, it's way off. I don't get it. After looking at the pics, the palette on the right looks short.
 

Wayne A

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As for the beat, as I said, it's different every time I kick it off. It will be fine, I think, then when I come back, it's way off. I don't get it. After looking at the pics, the palette on the right looks short.
Pin looks alright. As for the pallets they don't have to look equal, its about getting the swing equal.
 

Wayne A

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Seems like most of these clocks have been adjusted before we get them so I check the pallets before ever installing the suspension. Just rocking the anchor by hand I like to see the EW come out of lock with the pin just before center, its easy to see moving the anchor when the EW begins to move. This works most of the time but some clocks need more tuning if power is very high or low.
 

Ken M

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This is what bothers me. The Kundo movement I cleaned up the other day. Impulses are strong and equal. The Henn, the impulse to the right is gangbusters, the impulse to the left is half, maybe. Looks to happen at the same place, but it's weak. What causes that?

 

Wayne A

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Try just putting just the anchor arbor between the plates and rotate it 360, is it free? Really looked like bent arbor or pivot. Otherwise back to checking the pallet setup.
 

Ken M

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The anchor spins freely and it doesn't look bent, same with the escape wheel. These two pics show the extreme distance of travel for the anchor. Now, and amateur like me might be tempted to bend the pin so they are equal! But know that's not a good thing to do. I'm guessing that's the palettes, and they might be there by design, but I'm stumped. I don't bother to put it all together anymore, until I see those pulses equal, there's no sense. So....what now?

20210514_142619.jpg 20210514_142627.jpg
 

KurtinSA

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From your other post, it looked like the pallets were exposed by different amounts...I think that was pointed out. From there, the anchor pin might not be vertical. I don't check the anchor pin position the way you did. The anchor doesn't really matter...it's the tips of the pallets. Put the anchor onto a flat surface, reasonably parallel to the floor. Make sure only the pallet tips touch. Is the pin vertical or not? My guess is that it isn't. In order to fix that, there are two ways. One is to bend the pin. The other is to move the anchors equally around the great circle they form. One pallet goes in by "X" amount...the other pallet comes out by "X" amount.

Kurt
 

Wayne A

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I'd adjust the pallets at this point and it looks like someone has been at it already. Its not that difficult adjust but can be a little fiddly.
Only make small adjustment to the pallets at a time say .1mm so repeatable measurement is needed. As I was saying earlier I use the beginning of the impulse as my mark point and adjust the pallets so that the beginning occurs just before the pin is vertical. Soon as a pallet slides up on the impulse face the EW will begin to turn so that mark is easy to see by watching for the EW to move out of lock. Only need the last couple of arbors in the clock and use finger power for setting this up.

Picture below is the method I use to measure the pallets. Write down where you found each side and keep track of every change you make. Probably will need to shorten one and lengthen the other but watching the impulse will tell you.
Video is an example of what I'm talking about. Escapment

20200723_120350.jpg
 
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Ken M

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So drop one by .1mm, and raise the other? and that's point one mm? I got nothing that measures that small. Guess I need to get something. Doesn't look too difficult. How about if I take an average between what they are now, and set them both to that and go from there? Is that a bad idea?
 

KurtinSA

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Ken - You should get yourself a digital caliper...even a cheap one at Harbor Freight is well worth the purchase. I use mine all the time.

Wayne - Interesting in that youtube link to the escapement. I noticed that when the EW tooth just begins the transfer to the impulse face, the anchor is pointing slightly to the right, both entrance and exit. Maybe it's the angle of the camera, but that's not a "perfect" escapement.

Kurt
 
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Wayne A

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Well without measuring its going to be tougher because a tenth of a millimeter is a good size change and very hard to see. Its easy enough to get the pallets out of adjustment so its not going to run, kinda where your at.
 

Wayne A

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Wayne - Interesting in that youtube link to the escapement. I noticed that when the EW tooth just begins the transfer to the impulse face, the anchor is pointing slightly to the right, both entrance and exit. Maybe it's the angle of the camera, but that's not a "perfect" escapement.
Yea Kurtin the camera was not square to the movement when I made that but you get the idea. Don't know if any of my clocks are perfect but they run. ;)
 

Wayne A

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What clock is that in the video? And yes Kurt, I'm headed to HF tomorrow and pic up a caliper.
Its a Kern miniature, plate 1340E.

Check out how the the pin looked when I received the clock, seriously messed up!

20201022_153331.jpg 20201019_104203.jpg
 

Ken M

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"A bit fiddly". Just got done with my first iteration. They are .2mm apart, now only .1. It looks happier, but I don't think it's there yet. We shall see. Finding the proper way to measure is the tricky part. I ended up finding the depth probe to be easier for me to get a consistent reading....well, more consistent.
 
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Ken M

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It was still wiggling after a half hour! That's an improvement. Now I'm trying to get it to look like your video Wayne. Getting close. I'm down to "do I raise the exit pallet so it releases sooner to get the entrance pallet to land where I want it, or should I raise the entrance pallet so it lands higher on the EWT?" This is fun, and to think I was so ascared of them things!

Edit: I may have them mixed up, I'm calling the pallet on the left, looking at it through the peep holes, the entrance pallet. Am I mixed up?
 
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KurtinSA

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No, looking at the back of the movement, the EW turns clockwise, so the pallet on the left is the entrance pallet.

Kurt
 

Wayne A

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It looks like it wants to run, but that anchor still looks like it sticking somewhere.
Making progress sounds good!

The fork to pin contact area is a spot than can cause stick slip. Theres always going to be some jumping at the drops so don't let that bother you.
 

Ken M

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Ok. I'v been thinking about polishing the fork tines. My fancy new calipers tell me these springs in this package marked .0024" are actually .0025", that's .0002" thicker than whats called for. In my mind, .0002" isn't a deal breaker, but maybe?
 

KurtinSA

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Depending on the type of caliper you have, it might not have the resolution to read to x.xxxx...I bet it can only read to x.xxx. For that extra level of accuracy, you would need what's called an outside micrometer.

Even then, I don't necessarily trust my micrometer and my ability to use it. So, what I do is take a spring from the package that is supposed to be the right size. I don't cut it yet, cut put on the bottom block and locate the top block where it should be...if I were to cut it...that means a lot of spring will be exiting above the top block. Then I find a way to clinch the top block to a board that I use as a test stand...I have been using small size DeWalt sliding trigger clamps. I hang the spring then put on the pendulum. From there, I turn the pendulum about 180 degrees and let it go. After a few minutes, I time it for how long it takes for 8 beats...or 10 beats if necessary for miniatures. The pendulum is in the center of adjustment. From that, I determine if the pendulum can be adjusted properly. If it can't be, then I go up/down on size depending on what is needed. Once I find a spring that works, only then do I cut the spring to fit per the guide. This way, you don't really need to know the exact thickness of the spring, you trust the package and find the one that gets you into the sweet sport for adjustment.

Kurt
 

KurtinSA

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You need resolution to 0.0001". You can only know if something is say 0.0020, 0.0025, or 0.0030 but nothing in between. But your calipers can useful measuring pallet positions, main spring barrels and spring dimensions, etc.

Kurt
 

Ken M

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Yea, if I push the thumbwheel hard enough I drop to .0020. That sucks. Oh well, it's better than a yard stick. Guess I need a mic after all, I was hoping to avoid that $50 expense.
 

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