Eccentric nut position

Ibehooved

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I am working on a 400 day clock that flutters. It is Clear that the eccentric nut has been moved, since the slot is slightly stripped. Before adjusting the pallet drop how do I determine the best starting point for the eccentric nut?
 

Wayne A

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Sep 24, 2019
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Before making pallet adjustments have you tried just raising the fork a little, say .5mm at a time?
 

KurtinSA

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Welcome to the forum and to 400-day clocks! One rule of thumb is to save any adjustments of the pallets until later and even later than that, the eccentric. You indicate it's been moved, but likely the clock ran at some time in the past, so they might be OK.

As for fluttering, this is adjusted a different way. Try raising the fork 1mm or so. The fork is generally best as low as it can go without fluttering. Note that lowering the fork increases over swing but reduces overall rotation. Raising the fork reduces over swing but increases overall rotation.

Wayne beat me to it!

And we'd be interested in seeing what you're working on if you can upload a picture or two.

Kurt
 

MuseChaser

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To the person inquiring regarding rhe position of the eccentric nut....


....


I'm right here, on my couch.


Seriously, though...what everybody else said. Fork height first. If it flutters no matter how high you raise the fork, then of course you need to look elsewhere..pallet length and eccentric. Does the escape work properly when slowly rocking the anchor back and forth manually?
 
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Ibehooved

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Thanks everyone for your help. I’ll fiddle around with the fork placement and see if that helps. I have included a picture and you can see the eaten up eccentric nut. I think this is an uhrenfabrik Herr, 1951, but it has a plastic dome. Maybe that is a replacement. The escape wheel does advance when I manually rock the anchor
 

KurtinSA

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Probably someone tried to move the eccentric and didn't have the right screwdriver and it slipped out of the slot a few times. Best to work on the fork. And visually inspect the movement action...equal drops and good locks is all that is needed.

It does strike me as a clock by Herr...I see the "Germany" logo on the upper left...plate 1159 is appears. As I understand it, he worked at the Schatz factory and then branched out on his own, with most of the plans, etc., from Schatz. What does the dial look like? I passed up a Herr clock at an estate sale recently...I already have several. But the interesting thing about this clock was that it said Schatz on the dial. The back plate didn't reflect that...it was later that I realized I might have been looking at a Herr clock where used used a Schatz dial that "left" the factory with him. Or someone had to replace the original dial and realized that a Schatz fit it perfectly.

Kurt
 

MuseChaser

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FWIW, the slot in an eccentric adjuster isn't beveled to fit a regular screwdriver; the sides of the slot are pretty much parallel. If you use a regular screwdriver, it really only contacts the slot at the very outer edge, leading to the deformation you see in your pic, especially when the screwdriver slips. Strangely enough, the slot-head "bit/blade/bottle opener" on my Swiss Army knife fits eccentrics very well, as it has very little bevel to it. Although I don't have one, I believe the correct tool is flat so that it engages fully on both sides of the slot.
 

Ibehooved

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FWIW, the slot in an eccentric adjuster isn't beveled to fit a regular screwdriver; the sides of the slot are pretty much parallel. If you use a regular screwdriver, it really only contacts the slot at the very outer edge, leading to the deformation you see in your pic, especially when the screwdriver slips. Strangely enough, the slot-head "bit/blade/bottle opener" on my Swiss Army knife fits eccentrics very well, as it has very little bevel to it. Although I don't have one, I believe the correct tool is flat so that it engages fully on both sides of the slot.
FWIW, the slot in an eccentric adjuster isn't beveled to fit a regular screwdriver; the sides of the slot are pretty much parallel. If you use a regular screwdriver, it really only contacts the slot at the very outer edge, leading to the deformation you see in your pic, especially when the screwdriver slips. Strangely enough, the slot-head "bit/blade/bottle opener" on my Swiss Army knife fits eccentrics very well, as it has very little bevel to it. Although I don't have one, I believe the correct tool is flat so that it engages fully on both sides of the slot.
 

Ibehooved

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Here is a picture of the dial. I agree plate 1159. Today I took it apart and gave it an ultrasonic cleaning. When I put it back together, I reset the eccentric nut so the slot was vertical, like in plate 1159. Good ole Chas. Terwilliger! Now it runs . . . Almost. The pallet only clears the escape teeth on the entrance side when I over swing the pendulum to about two revolutions. I have not moved the position of the fork yet.

I love it that with all the special clocktools that we can never get enough of - the best tool for the eccentric nut is a Swiss Army knife.

thanks again for your advice.

B7544C1A-ED5B-4050-BE9F-403350DFD5CF.jpeg
 

MuseChaser

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Here is a picture of the dial. I agree plate 1159. Today I took it apart and gave it an ultrasonic cleaning. When I put it back together, I reset the eccentric nut so the slot was vertical, like in plate 1159. Good ole Chas. Terwilliger! Now it runs . . . Almost. The pallet only clears the escape teeth on the entrance side when I over swing the pendulum to about two revolutions. I have not moved the position of the fork yet.

I love it that with all the special clocktools that we can never get enough of - the best tool for the eccentric nut is a Swiss Army knife.

thanks again for your advice.

View attachment 658399
Lol.. I didn't say it was the best tool..just better than any regular screwdriver I have....;););););)
 

KurtinSA

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Here is a picture of the dial. I agree plate 1159. Today I took it apart and gave it an ultrasonic cleaning. When I put it back together, I reset the eccentric nut so the slot was vertical, like in plate 1159. Good ole Chas. Terwilliger!
Wow that was pretty brave! The diagrams in the book aren't to be taken that literally! You typically only want to move the eccentric based upon observing how the escapement worked as you carefully moved the anchor pin back and forth.

Kurt
 

Ibehooved

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Welcome to the forum and to 400-day clocks! One rule of thumb is to save any adjustments of the pallets until later and even later than that, the eccentric. You indicate it's been moved, but likely the clock ran at some time in the past, so they might be OK.

As for fluttering, this is adjusted a different way. Try raising the fork 1mm or so. The fork is generally best as low as it can go without fluttering. Note that lowering the fork increases over swing but reduces overall rotation. Raising the fork reduces over swing but increases overall rotation.

Wayne beat me to it!

And we'd be interested in seeing what you're working on if you can upload a picture or two.

Kurt
I think I understand the rotation part. I assume it refers to the distance each pallet travels. But don’t know what “overswing” means.
 

Ken M

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Hope you marked where that nut was, you may need to go back. Horizontal to vertical.....well...that's a lot.
 

KurtinSA

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Rotation is the total degrees that the pendulum turns from stop to stop. Over swing has to do with how much more rotation is obtained after you hear the tick of the escape wheel falling off a pallet. The clock ticks going one direction, and ticks going the other direction. What I do is take say 4 toothpicks. I pick a ball and when it comes to a stop, I put the toothpick down there extending radially away from the pendulum. Then watch that ball rotate all the way around and stop again...put down another toothpick. Now, listen for the tick sound on each rotation...put a toothpick down for each side. Now look at the distance between the two toothpicks on each side, from the tick location to end of rotation. Those distances need to be the same on each side. That's called being in beat.

Kurt
 

Ibehooved

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Rotation is the total degrees that the pendulum turns from stop to stop. Over swing has to do with how much more rotation is obtained after you hear the tick of the escape wheel falling off a pallet. The clock ticks going one direction, and ticks going the other direction. What I do is take say 4 toothpicks. I pick a ball and when it comes to a stop, I put the toothpick down there extending radially away from the pendulum. Then watch that ball rotate all the way around and stop again...put down another toothpick. Now, listen for the tick sound on each rotation...put a toothpick down for each side. Now look at the distance between the two toothpicks on each side, from the tick location to end of rotation. Those distances need to be the same on each side. That's called being in beat.

Kurt
Thank you. So I was completely wrong! Not the anchor, but the pendulum. What a great day for high tech tools like Swiss Army knives and toothpicks!
 

Wayne A

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For adjusting eccentrics I have a 90deg screwdriver I cut down to have square surfaces so as to not mar the brass. Gives a good bit of leverage and control for making the typical very small changes required.

Yea a 90 deg rotation of the eccentric is extreme but more pictures of what it looks like viewed from above would help.
 

Ibehooved

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Jun 9, 2021
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For adjusting eccentrics I have a 90deg screwdriver I cut down to have square surfaces so as to not mar the brass. Gives a good bit of leverage and control for making the typical very small changes required.

Yea a 90 deg rotation of the eccentric is extreme but more pictures of what it looks like viewed from above would help.
For adjusting eccentrics I have a 90deg screwdriver I cut down to have square surfaces so as to not mar the brass. Gives a good bit of leverage and control for making the typical very small changes required.

Yea a 90 deg rotation of the eccentric is extreme but more pictures of what it looks like viewed from above would help.
Here is a picture from above. The “vertical” position of the slot on the eccentric nut seems to let the escapement teeth smoothly advance one at a time. Let me know if you see anything helpful.

D62D955D-AD71-45A7-88BE-DBAE14E62DA4.jpeg
 

Wayne A

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Sep 24, 2019
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The “vertical” position of the slot on the eccentric nut seems to let the escapement teeth smoothly advance one at a time.
Thats what matters, must need to be that area. Typically if its too low it jams up the escapement. Have to check the drops if there close to equal.

Wayne
 

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