Early JUF Pendulum question

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by etmb61, Mar 23, 2013.

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  1. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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  2. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    This pendulum, not illustrated in the Repair Guide, is the first 6-pillar gallery disc pendulum used for a 400-Day clock. It first appeared in mid-1885 with an early production DeGruyter patent full striking 400-Day table clock, and was last documented in mid-1894 with the same type of clock. All examples found to date (seven examples in my Harder database) have been found with the DeGruyter patent full striking clock. It is a large, heavy pendulum that looks awkward when placed on one of the normal time-only 400-Day Harder patent clocks.
     
  3. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Thanks John. FYI, the JUF I mentioned in the other thread by Emit D. has this pendulum.

    Eric
     

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  4. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Well, you'd best post photos of your clock here so we can have a gander. :excited:
     
  5. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    John,

    As requested. The elderly gentleman I purchased this from told me he inherited it from another family member and it's been in the family for a long time.

    The columns do look like those on at least one DeGruyter I've seen. They don't match with clock 1 on page 22 of the repair guide however. Could be a marriage, or not.

    A picture of 5321R is shown last for comparison (picture is from an ebay listing).

    Eric
     

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  6. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Sure enough, this morning I dug through my archives and came across another clock that is identical to yours including the smooth pillar gallery pendulum. Now we have two standard time-only table models with that pendulum in addition to the seven striking clocks mentioned earlier. Should a few more show up then I'll need to change my conclusions regarding which clocks this was used with this pendulum. As far as "when" it was used I have no reason yet to change the dates . . 1885-1894.

    The columns on your clock look like the ones used for the DeGruyter strikers, but I believe the striker posts are larger in diameter. I have both in my collection so I'll check that and report later.
     
  7. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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  8. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    John,

    Do you have a picture you can post?

    Eric
     
  9. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Eric, I have only a single photo of the clock taken in 2008. It belongs (or belonged) to a member in Australia, and may be the source of the pendulum photo that is on Chapter 72's website but I can't confirm that.

    NSN03 6-Pillar Front.jpg
     
  10. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Eric, that clock is the same model as yours and should have the same size support pillars. The Harder patent time-only clocks had only two sizes of support pillars, short ones for the pendulums with no gallery, and taller ones that were designed for the 3-pillar gallery pendulum. The 6-pillar gallery pendulum would fit the latter with no problems.

    I've just checked the pillars on my DeGruyter striker, and they turned out to be exactly the same size as those on your clock both in diameter and height. Here is a photo of a DeGruyter striker for info:

    4581 Front.jpg As I mentioned earlier this model was fitted both with either the 3-pillar gallery disc per this photo or the 6-pillar gallery disc we have been discussing. The dome is an oval shape to match the base.
     
  11. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    #11 etmb61, Mar 24, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
    John,

    I'd say these are the same part. Both pictures are from the same side and the features coincide.


    Here also is 3848R from an ebay listing last summer. It has the exact same columns as on my clock, plus the pendulum.

    So there have only been 9 examples of this pendulum discovered?

    Eric
     

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  12. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    The DeGruyter clock you posted has the lowest serial number yet documented that is fitted with this pendulum.

    Actually I know of 11 examples of this pendulum, 9 of them documented with actual clocks and the other two are loose pendulums. An equally rare Harder pendulum to the 6 smooth-pillar disc is the 3-pillar wall clock disc with extended pillars; I have 8 of those in my data.

    4889 Pendulum.jpg This is the second version of this pendulum; the first one had a glass tube down the center with the suspension spring centered in that.

    There are many more of the 3-pillar gallery pendulum shown above with the DeGruyter striker I posted, my data include 34 examples with actual clocks plus four loose pendulums.
     
  13. MUN CHOR-WENG

    MUN CHOR-WENG Registered User

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    Hi John,

    The De Gruyter strikers also had two sizes of pillar supports, taller ones for of the striker with the 3-pillar disc pendulum and shorter ones for the striker with the 6-pillar disc pendulum. The difference in height is 7mm.

    Picture of the two strikers placed side by side is shown below.

    IMG_1161-1.jpg

    Mun C W
     
  14. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Mun, thanks for the correction. I based my comment on what I could see from photos and those appeared to be the same. Now we know they aren't.
     
  15. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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  16. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Side by side with Mun's striker (on left). Very consistent characteristics. I was thinking someone had changed the hardware on the gallery, but these two match there too. The discs could be different diameters.

    Hmmmm.

    Eric
     

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  17. MUN CHOR-WENG

    MUN CHOR-WENG Registered User

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    #17 MUN CHOR-WENG, Mar 28, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
    The diameter of the striker disc pendulum is 90mm, much larger than that of standard disc pendulum.

    Mun C W
     
  18. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    This one is also 90mm and weighs 396 grams.

    Eric
     
  19. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    For the record, here are some aditional pictures of my latest find.

    About the clock: The barrel assembly is a late model replacement as is the hour hand. The crown is from a later JUF, but it fits perfect. Everythig else looks like it should to me anyway.

    There is a fragment of a label on the bottom with the letters "Manu" and part tof the "f" remaining. Is it likely this would have been a date or a maker's label?

    Eric
     

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  20. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    Eric please can You make a rear picture of the movement.
     
  21. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Kamil,

    Is this what you wanted?

    back2.jpg plate2.jpg barrel_new.jpg

    Not much progress since last seen here. I replaced the new style barrel with an older one from within 20 years of the original. The pillar is not relieved for the barrel's teeth like yours is, and it's a very close fit.

    Eric
     
  22. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    Eric
    yes thanks. It showes that the pillar cut from my movement is just a special issue that happen as an effect of worker mistake.
     

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