Early English Lantern Clock

[adam sloan]

what can you tell me about this early english lantern clock around what date was it made and anything elce you can tell me please

 

[Burkhard Rasch]

we need to see the movement,these lantern clocks were coppied-by appearance only-from the 19th century up to now and can often be ided only by their "innards"
Burkhard

 

[novicetimekeeper]

More pics please, but early doesn't sound like an accurate description on viewing so far but very happy to be proved wrong.

I don't have one, but have considered it an aim. The trouble is there are very few in original condition.

(I'm sure any early clock would be a single hander for instance, you do have the dial of a single hander)

 

[novicetimekeeper]

We probably need to decide what early means too, I would say late 16th to early 17th century was early for a lantern clock, but those would be hard to come by and certainly substantially altered, but I don't think brass was used so much in the construction until the early part of the 17th century so an early brass lantern clock could be anywhere in the 17th century to be fair.

To own a clock that was made before the English civil war would be quite something. I'd love it but probably be afraid to run it!

 

[novicetimekeeper]

After some googling I have found what I'm pretty sure is the same model for sale but as it is an active sale I believe it is against the rules to post a link. I've emailed the vendor for more details but judging by the price I think it is going to be early 20th century.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Adam,

Brian Loomes website has some useful images of the real thing.

Regards,

Graham

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Excellent resource, he doesn't quote prices so it fits in with the rules so well done Graham . Brian says he is concentrating on lanterns now because he is finding longcase clocks too much effort to move about. I think the value is holding up as well whereas prices for longcase don't seem to be what they were.

He keeps an excellent archive of clocks he has sold as well as the articles he has had published in Clocks magazine where he traces the genealogy of the makers.

I don't have much wall space left for clocks but were I to find a really good one I could afford I think I would be prepared to build another room!

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules, it seems that the site that had a version of your clock is dormant, possibly deceased, so the clock isn't actively for sale.

It is here

http://www.theclocksmiths.com/images/clocksforsale/1054Lantern/Lantern.JPG

 

[jmclaugh]

Early lantern clocks were invariably single-handed and 30 hour with back to back trains, they were weight driven and not wound through the dial. The earliest ones prior to the introduction of the pendulum into England had balance wheel escapements. The dial on this one has no minute numbering.

 

[Chris Radano]

It's probably a clock that was put together from old parts. Looks like the dial chapter ring, the frame, and the engraving outside the chapter ring are possibly old. The dial center may be old, if so would be early 18th c. style engraving (flowing floral pattern, opposed to "tulip" engraving which would be more in style with 17th c. engraving). The movement, hands, don't appear old, may date to the 20th century. The bell straps and bell, I don't know but I would think they're 20th c. as well. The frets, are not the same color brass as the dial chapter ring, but look like decent quality. The question is, does it have a German movement, or a fusee? A fusee would command a higher price. Looks like it has a fast-slow regulation at the top of the dial center, so probably an a platform movement, such as Sestrel or similar. Date- probably pre WWII? Well, that's what I say based on the photo.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I have a question, what is the difference between verge and balance escapement? they look much the same to me. I'm assuming that the oscillation comes from the impulse driving the wheel first one way then the other whereas on a verge with a pendulum or a hairspring you have an inbuilt oscillator so you only need to apply the impulse in one direction.

Contintental clocks used verge and foliot but according to what I've read English clocks were balance escapement and later verge and pendulum.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Nick,

....I'm assuming that the oscillation comes from the impulse driving the wheel first one way then the other whereas on a verge with a pendulum or a hairspring you have an inbuilt oscillator so you only need to apply the impulse in one direction....

A verge receives an impulse from the escape wheel on each flag, so it is impulsed in both directions, even though the escape is always running the same way.

Regards,

Graham

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I did start another thread for this to stop hijacking the thread but I'll reply here.

If the balance escapement has no pendulum and no spring what makes the wheel reverse direction? Google is failing me, probably because I'm not phrasing the question properly. Any mention of balance and escapement produces things that are far too modern.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I've been sat here working through various books and I think I have it. My inexperienced has led to me confusing which wheel does which.

The balance wheel is reminiscent of an citroen single spoke steering wheel, according to Brian Loomes in complete British clocks, "The wheel is made to rotate alternately to the left and to the right as impulses from the teeth of the escape wheel push against the projecting pallets on the balance wheel arbor" .

 

[gmorse]

Hi Nick,

What stops it is the other flag hitting the tooth on the other side of the escape wheel, at which point the momentum of the balance wheel causes the train to reverse slightly, hence the expression "recoil escapement". What is confusing is that some older texts refer to the escape, (or crown if you will), as the "balance" wheel.

Regards,

Graham