E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by mikeh, Oct 24, 2001.

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  1. mikeh

    mikeh Registered User

    Mar 5, 2001
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    Hi Bob,

    Sounds like a private label (contract) watch. These are watches that jewelers had the factories produce with their own names on them. You can often tell who made the watch just by comparing the layout of the movement with watches by known manufacturers, looking of course for each manufacturers unique features. Other than that, without a picture, or at least some further information like the markings on the movement, it would be just a guess. If you can get a picture(s), Larry Jones has a very good article explaining image posting, and if you need further help, just email me by clicking the speeding letter at the top of this message.

    Good luck,
    Mike
     
  2. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
    NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
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    As Mike pointed out, it's probably a private label mvt. For example, I have in my collection an 18 size Aurora Watch Co. mvt with the following on the dial "E. P. Sondberg, Fargo, D. T.". I don't have the watch handy so I can't double check the spelling, but this is probably the same firm. The marking "D. T." would date the Aurora to 1888 or earlier (definitely no earlier than 1884, best guess would be 1886).

    Hope this helps.

    Greg
     
  3. If I may add to my esteemed colleague's comments, "D.T." very likely stands for "Dakota Territory", and allows the Aurora watch to be dated as Greg indicated, whereas the "N.D." indicates that the state existed when the watch at the top of the thread was made.
     
  4. capnfred

    capnfred Registered User

    Apr 3, 2012
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    Hello, I just learned that I inherited an E.P. Sundberg watch that belonged to my Grandfather a farmer from the Fargo N. D. area..once I receive the watch I will post pictures of it, and give any other details... don't know whether it is Fargo N.D. or Fargo D.T......could be either as grandpa was farming there before it became a state... will have to wait and see... thanks

    capn
     
  5. capnfred

    capnfred Registered User

    Apr 3, 2012
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    hello, I finally have the watch, this is what I now know, The watch is labeled on the face with E. P. Sundberg in fine italics, it is a top winding, lever set watch. On the inside is as follows:

    the back of the case patened trademark, 89226 below a star and cresent
    on the movement 34514, E.P. Sundberg, Fargo N.Dak, in the center is "safety pinion" the face appears to be porcelain, the back of the movement is engraved with lots of filigree. According to a local watchmaker "the watch has been serviced many times over its life. This is based on his observation of many marks on the inside of the back...the earliest is sometime in the 1890's... his eyes are much better than mine... also there appears to be a lengthy mathematical formula engraved on the inside of the back cover. it appears to keep excellent time..if anyone would like to see a picture I can try and make some.... thanks

    capn
     
  6. capnfred

    capnfred Registered User

    Apr 3, 2012
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    This is my 1st post on this thread, but here goes. I recently inherited my GF's watch, based on the research on the net it appears to be a PL Hamilton 930 serial number 34514, of that I am pretty sure. It has roman numerals on the face, appears to run very well...was made for E.P. Sundberg in Fargo North Dakota...I am sure that my GF was the original purchaser, I dont have a high quality camera, but will attempt to post a pict of the face and the back of the movement...it is quite pretty inside, the outside is very plain...based on the serial number it was made 1895 or so.. have not figured the exact date. On the face is E.P. Sunderland, on the inside it says E.P. Sunderland Fargo Dak..have no desire to sell it, but that begs the question should it be insured, if so how much...My GF was a farmer in Fargo... and Sunderlands was a jewelry store located in Fargo....any further info is appreciated....

    Thanks

    Fred
     
  7. Kent

    Kent Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Silver Member

    Aug 26, 2000
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    capn:

    We'd love to see pictures of the movement (the "works") and markings stamped inside of the watch case (you can ignore any "hand-scratched" characters, they're watch repairers' marks), the clearer and sharper, the better. Clearness and sharpness is important as differences in makes, watch grades or case material markings can be subtle. Other pictures, especially of the dial signature, will also be nice, but these are the most important. We may be able to identify the make it by the shape of the plates.

    Its also helpful if you can post all the markings that are on the movement, especially the movement serial number, in case they can't be seen in the picture(s).

    Good luck,
     
  8. capnfred

    capnfred Registered User

    Apr 3, 2012
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    Thanks, will give it a shot with my handy dandy camera....as for the marks on the inside of the case that is easy, the repairers marks are barely visible to naked eye....
     
  9. capnfred

    capnfred Registered User

    Apr 3, 2012
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    took some pics last nite, but they were too large, will have to figure out how large they can be.... also forgive my typos, Sundberg, not Sunderland... not sure where that came from..... anyway will try and get some pics up here.. thanks

    Fred
     
  10. capnfred

    capnfred Registered User

    Apr 3, 2012
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    ok, here are some pics, will try and upload them...if you would like the ones I took that were higher def, I can email them to you...thanks

    Fred CIMG0487.jpg CIMG0488.jpg CIMG0489.jpg CIMG0490.jpg
     
  11. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Sep 21, 2002
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    Fred,
    Thanks for the pics. It is a nice old PL watch. The thread was started in 2001 and you can see that Private Jewelers used several different companies to buy personalized watches from.

    The 930 is a 16J watch with a total production od only 4200. I would esitmate a 50% loss in these watches over the years, so you have a fairly limited production watch.
     
  12. capnfred

    capnfred Registered User

    Apr 3, 2012
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    I have not been able to find any other examples of this watch, this begs two questions, should I have it professionally appraised, and is it worth insuring...I have absolutely no interest in selling this watch as it was my GF who taught me how to fix things.. everytime he visited he would bring old clocks..and we would fix them .... I ended up as a technician in the field of military electronics, and still "love to fix" things...right now my focus is on old HD Motorcycles... thanks...

    Fred
     
  13. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    I am sorry if you read into my comments that the watch is valuable, as I said 4200 of that watch grade was produced and the fact that it has a Private Jewelers name on it doesn't make it much more valuable than one that has just "Hamilton" on it.
    You can save any appraisal fees or insurance money on this watch. We do have a appraisal section on the main board towards the bottom, https://mb.nawcc.org/forumdisplay.php?309-What-is-this-watch-worth but the value of this watch is about equal to a nice dinner for 2 with a bottle of wine.
     
  14. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Aug 26, 2000
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    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    Fred:

    Very nice heirloom!

    It is in a swing ring case made by the Crescent Watch Case Co.

    I've added a link, in post #41, to your pictures in this thread in our cumulative thread on Hamilton Private Labels.

    Unless you know that it has been cleaned and oiled within the last few years, you should have the watch serviced before running it very much. It may be helpful for you to read the Encyclopedia article on Watch Service and its related links, especially the one to the message board thread on the subject. The Encyclopedia article on Choosing a Pocket Watch Repair Person may be useful as well.

    Having gathered and printed out information about a family watch, it is a wise idea to write out as much as you know about the family member to whom the watch originally belonged. Then, add the names and relationships of the family members who passed it down to the current holder. Make up a booklet with this and all of the watch information and try to keep it with the watch. You might even include a CD or, better yet, a USB thumb drive with copies of the pictures or information, in addition to the printouts. Even though they may not be readable 100 years from now, some more recent descendent may transfer the files to the then current format and media. This way, the watch has real family heritage instead of it just being an old family watch, the identity and relationship of the original owner having been lost in the distant past.

    Please feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear to you.

    Good luck,
     
  15. capnfred

    capnfred Registered User

    Apr 3, 2012
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    #15 capnfred, May 13, 2012
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
    Re: E. P. Sundberg & Co, Fargo ND

    Jim not to worry I did not read anything into your response, I was just curious if it might be worth insuring,,as for running the watch, other than just to see if ran or not, and if it kept time... both of which it does nicely, the watch will probably be nothing more than a memory of my Grandpa and Dad....both now gone...both from a different time....may get a protective case for it...as for servicing, according to a local guy who is a watchmaker, (makes his own gears).. and is 91 years old...it was last serviced about the time my grandfather died...sometime in the late fifties...the workmanship is pretty amazing....it is a real piece of art...and a good timepiece. I appreciate what you have told me to date, any further information that is available is appreciated....I am going to takethe advice of Kent and write up a short article regarding the watch and its history... my granddaughter will get it from me when my time comes...in that respect it priceless to me.... thanks again..

    Fred

    ps: is there any significance to the letter "S" found on the support bracket for the escapement... just curious....also is there anyway to find out any more detailed information on the watch..would be nice to add it to the personal history of the watch for my heirs....thanks again for your time...

    fred
     

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