American E.Ingraham Artwood #2 Duplex Verge

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Mike Unwin, Feb 13, 2020.

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  1. Mike Unwin

    Mike Unwin Registered User

    Feb 13, 2020
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    Good Day Every one,
    While at a junk shop I bought home a E.Ingraham Artwood # 2 Duplex mantle clock with number 136 inscribed on the bottom . It needed a bob which I ordered from Timesavers I should have stopped there but took the movement and mounted and borrowed a bob from a Session 240 clock I found on the road it would almost run .
    I did something bad I started to tinker removed the verge without taking a picture and gave it a tweak then another now it is ruined .
    I tried to buy another verge but it seems it is a unlisted one ,does anyone know where I can buy a replacement ? I swear I will never touch that thing ,I know the clock has no money value and don,t want to spend a ton on it as the younger folks have no interest in old things . Thanks Mike

    Artwood # 2 Duplex.jpg E. Ingraham front.jpg.jpg E. Ingraham movement front.jpg Ingraham Artwood Movement.jpg
     
    Rockin Ronnie likes this.
  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Jan 15, 2004
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    When you say the verge is ruined, what exactly do you mean? Picture 4 seems to show the verge complete, but the picture is not very clear.

    BTW, is there any writing on the front of the movement at all?
     
  3. Mike Unwin

    Mike Unwin Registered User

    Feb 13, 2020
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    Thanks Steven for your quick reply sorry for the pictures I just have a older cell phone to take them ,there are no names or numbers visible on the movement but I did read elsewhere you have to dismantle the frame to see a year stamp under a spring retainer .
    I did not take a reference picture when I first removed the movement then foolishly decided to tweak the verge to "fix it " and made it worse really wish I could take that back ,the old clock smith in our town has long retired and really don,t want to turn this clock into a money pit .I would buy a new one if they were available I counted 48 teeth on escape wheel . Cheers Mike
     
  4. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    WEll, how did you tweak the verge. What specifically did you do? Some members here may be able to advise you.
     
  5. Mike Unwin

    Mike Unwin Registered User

    Feb 13, 2020
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    I used needle nose pliers .
     
  6. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    Sep 4, 2008
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    So you either closed or opened the verge too much or in the wrong direction. It can likely still be returned to a proper shape, unless you broke something. The problem with commercial replacement verges is that they almost never work as they are. They need to be adjusted by light bending. So you are probably better off trying to get the one you have to fit. If you can show us a close, sharp picture of the verge and the escape wheel, or, even better a video showing the verge swinging in and out of the escape wheel, we can probably help you.

    Uhralt
     
  7. Mike Unwin

    Mike Unwin Registered User

    Feb 13, 2020
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    Thanks Uhralt ,
    this is the best picture I have ,think the verge should enclose 8 teeth ? cheers Mike

    IMG_20200214_090033.jpg
     
  8. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    I would start by straightening the part of the verge that you bent. That should bring you close to the original shape. The number of teeth enclosed is not always 8. It may be less or more. Once you straightened the bent part take another picture of the verge and EW and we can try to determine what needs to be tweaked some more.

    Uhralt
     
  9. Rockin Ronnie

    Rockin Ronnie Registered User
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    I would get a new one to fit. Constant bending is going to lead to a broken verge.
    Ron
     
  10. Mike Unwin

    Mike Unwin Registered User

    Feb 13, 2020
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    Hi Uhralt ,
    I have made a few mistake first I should have never touched the verge but failing that should have took a several pictures because now I don,t know the original profile .
    Rockin Ronnie thanks for your reply yes your right one more bend could be the last , I have tried to buy a new one at Timesavers but this is one they don,t stock and I don,t want to invest by taking somewhere as it is too common to spend large on it.
    Think maybe the best thing is baring a new verge putting this project on hold. Thanks everyone who viewed and responded .cheers Mike
     
  11. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    I think you have nothing to lose with regard to the old verge. If it breaks, so what? You cannot use it the way it is. I would just try to get the right lower side of the verge straight. This area is usually flat and now has a visible downwards bend in it. Let the parts that are pointing upwards untouched when you do this. If you are concerned about breaking you can test if the verge is hardened by putting a file against the side of it. If the file grabs, the verge is not hardened and is unlikely to break. If the file slides just off, it is hardened. In that case you can anneal the area that needs to be straightened with a small butane torch.

    Uhralt
     
  12. Jim Hartog

    Jim Hartog Registered User
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    Hello Mike,

    Based on how the EW is tied up, the EW rotates counter clockwise with the teeth pointing in the direction of rotation. That, and the shape of the anchor (verge) leads me to believe this is a strip pallet dead beat. Look up strip pallet dead beat anchors before you start bending stuff. From what I have read/heard, strip pallet dead beats are less forgiving that the recoil type anchor in terms of angles.

    The other thing that may need adjustment is what some call the "verge button". That is the little arm with the pin that the anchor/verge rotates on. It can be moved (single rivet) so that the anchor/verge is closer or further from the EW. Yours looks to be a little too far away at the moment. I don't think either of the pallets can grab the EW.

    Jim
     
  13. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    In the first photos, the verge looked pretty good. It may have needed a small adjustment. Now it looks like a nightmare! I would try to make it look like the first picture again, if you can. You may have killed it.:) Willie C
     
  14. Mike Unwin

    Mike Unwin Registered User

    Feb 13, 2020
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    Yes I think you are right Willie ,you live and learn ...sometimes the hard way really wished I had left it alone .
    Jim I see you are in Whitby ,I am in Uxbridge you might know the same repair guy that used to be in our town Ed .Evans ? I did try to raise the verge seems I just trade one problem for another so I put the arm back to the original height . No worries it is just a winter project ,really have too many now !;)
    Thanks everyone think I should stick to the old engines .
     
  15. Jim Hartog

    Jim Hartog Registered User
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    Jan 6, 2010
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    Hello Mike,

    No, I don't know Ed Evans. We are slowly losing our clock repair guys in the area. Whitby does have a trained watch/clock repair person with a store front operation beside the UPS store on the south-east corner of Rossland and Garden in Whitby. I mention him since he has rescued me on occasion. If you are in the area, look me up, I may be able to help, and I often work pro bono if the fix is not too involved and no new parts are required. I'm in the phone book.

    Jim
     
  16. Mike Unwin

    Mike Unwin Registered User

    Feb 13, 2020
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