E. Howard Watch Works pocket watch #3651 year 1863

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by markhowe, May 19, 2017.

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  1. markhowe

    markhowe New Member

    Jun 17, 2016
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    #1 markhowe, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    I have my ggfather's pocket watch watch and a letter from E. Howard Watch Works identifying it: #3651 year 1863. Letter is from W.W.Cook
    Is that enough identification for getting a rough evaluation?
    My email is markhowe@cox.net if anyone wants to contact me directly for photos and background.

    A bit of background, he was the Supt. on the Iowa Div. of the Chicago & NWRR from Clinton to Council Bluffs 1861-1879. [C&NWRR conference is this weekend. wish i was there.]
  2. musicguy

    musicguy Registered User
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    Jan 12, 2017
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  3. JTD

    JTD Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 27, 2005
    We are not allowed to discuss values on this part of the site, if that is what you mean by getting 'a rough evaluation'.

    In any case it would be better to post your request (and photos) on the pocket watch section, rather than in 'clocks general'.

    Maybe one of the moderators will move your post for you.

  4. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Super Moderator
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    Feb 11, 2005
    Camarillo, CA
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    Moving to the American Pocket Watch section.
  5. John Cote

    John Cote Registered User
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    Aug 26, 2000
    Midwest USA
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    As was said above, if you post a picture of the dial and the movement/works of the watch we can tell you a lot about it. The serial number is pretty low. It sounds like it will be a series III but there are a lot of variations. Sounds like a very cool watch.
  6. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User

    Dec 28, 2010
    Real Estate Broker on hiatus
    So. Cal., USA
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    20+ years ago, when I first got into pocket watches, the first watch I owned was a Howard. But mine was a Keystone Howard, not an E. Howard & Co. from the earlier company. Not long after, I remember gravitating towards the Series III. There's something about the way it's put together. Great quality is obvious, and the steel parts are beautifully finished. They're great watches.

    As John Cote says, there are variations, mostly in the type of regulator that's on the watch. However, another variation is the earlier watches that had the balance-wheel above the center-wheel, where the later models were all slimmed down a bit and had a more common configuration (At least with 3/4 plate watches.) with the balance under the center-wheel. I'm guessing that yours is the earlier, balance-over, type.

    We could certainly provide non-value information, that you yourself might find valuable, if you can provide images. Cheers.
  7. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    Jul 12, 2002
    I am a research physicist at a government lab
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    #7 Clint Geller, May 20, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2017
    There are many variations among these early Series III (Model 1861) movements besides the regulator. The Howard factory records state that S# 3,651 has a "chronometer balance" (i.e., a temperature compensating bimetallic balance), "Set Jewels," meaning that the train jewels are in settings (which might be either screwed down or spun in), a "Patent Regulator" (which in this period, meant Mershon's patented compound rack and pin regulator), and adjustment to isochronism (i.e., constant rate, independent of winding state), but not adjusted either to temperature or physical positions. The records do not suggest that this movement has "rayed" plates, so one may safely assume that the plates have standard gilded finish, especially since all known rayed movements left the factory fully adjusted (though adjustments weren't being marked on Howard's standard movements yet). The case screws (two of them) were down on the pillar plate in this Serial number range, like the earlier Series II (Model 1858 divided plate, Types D & E). The pallet bridge style is also shared with the earlier model. Examples with escapements with upright pallets are also known in this serial number range, though they are rare, so the movement should be checked for this feature. In this serial number range, the dial may be a Type 2 (See Geller, NAWCC BULLETIN, August 1993) with a straight, two-line script signature, or a scarce one-line script signature.

    More information is available in the Howard wiki on this website, here:


    That wiki contains a reference to my 2005 book on Howard watch movements, which contains even more information.
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