E Howard & Co Astronomical Regulator No25

[ClockMogul]

I am thrilled and proud of new newest addition to my collection. For almost a year I have been pursuing this time piece. I was South East of Cleveland, Ohio looking at the New Haven No 0 I purchased and the guy says before i left, I think there is a guy right down the road from you that has a E Howard Astronomical Regulator. So I was given his name and phone number. This is a very early version of a No25. For all that it matters, I have not yet heard or seen any pictures of another No 25. yes I have seen over a dozen No23's but not a 25. The No25 stands 6ft 9 inches tall and 21 inches wide with a 14 inch dial. This time piece has a single cut glass large diameter mercury jar. Also the movement on this is very very early and unusual that it has a single legged crutch with a counter weight on opposite side. The case has its original finish with lots of alligatoring and crusty..Original silvered mirror on back with oval side glass panels. This was on the top of my wish list and never in a million years think i would stumble on one right down the road from me.

 

[ClockMogul]

Just had a chance to up load a few pictures of the No25. It stands 6ft 9 inches tall ..

 

[jmclaugh]

That is a very impressive and susbstantial looking floor regulator and lovely to hear when someone finds exactly what they have been looking for. If you ever get the chance it would be interesting to see the movement though I appreciate it would be a bit of a chore. Out of interest what is that nice looking wall clock in the third picture?

 

[ClockMogul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_JEMS46Seg&feature=player_embedded

Small clip of the 25 running..

 

[ClockMogul]

 

[bajaddict]

Very VERY nice

A side note on a recent observation that I have made. I sincerely applaud the enthusiasm and efforts that you have made in pursuit of your stellar collection & appreciate your sharing with all. I also am very grateful that this past time has entry opportunities and can provide a level of deep satisfaction for almost every budget

 

[BLACK FOREST CLOCKS]

Very nice find. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ClockMogul]

E Howard No25 Astronomical Regulator with provenence. This clock was ordered from E Howard & Co in June of 1859 by F.J. Preston & Son Jewelers of Burlington, Vermont and remained with the Jeweler as they moved from the original builging in 1835. Bankruptcy was filed in the mid 1980's and that is where the person I obtained it from got it. Very interesting also how the person ended up with it from the jewelery store. The person buys gold and silver and was set up buying gold and silver somewhere locally in Burlington, Vermont. He had stopped into the jewelers place to see what they may have had in the way of gold, silver and pocket watches. He noticed this clock sitting out in the middle of the store. Ask if they were interested in selling it and they told him no. Before he left the store he gave them a calling card and said if you ever decide to sell it, he would be interested in it. When the jewelers store had filed for bankruptcy, they removed the clock from the store and took it home. Called the guy up and said if you still want this clock its forsale..

I am thinking it is very very rare and few and far in between where you can get a hold of something like htis where it can be accounted for..

 

[melikesclocks]

What baja said.

Eric

 

[MQ32shooter]

Jerry, the NAWCC is going to have to print you a sign to put in front of your home that says "Outstanding, Museum Quality Floor and Wall Regulators"! Man, everytime I think you have found the ultimate clock, you come up with one even better! Thanks for sharing your beautiful collection with us.

 

[ClockMogul]

 

[Tony10Clocks]

That is one impressive bad boy...... Well done.....And nice to have some history with it

 

[ClockMogul]

Jerry, the NAWCC is going to have to print you a sign to put in front of your home that says "Outstanding, Museum Quality Floor and Wall Regulators"! Man, everytime I think you have found the ultimate clock, you come up with one even better! Thanks for sharing your beautiful collection with us.

MQ.. Been wanting one of these since the first day i started collecting clocks. I am extremely thrilled and content with my masterpiece..

 

[RAK]

I have to agree with the others here. It is a joy to have someone on the message board who is so willing to share from his collection pieces we would normally not have an opportunity to see, such as this most recent addition. Fantastic.

Bob

 

[ClockMogul]

I have to agree with the others here. It is a joy to have someone on the message board who is so willing to share from his collection pieces we would normally not have an opportunity to see, such as this most recent addition. Fantastic.

Bob

Hi Bob, You are more then welcome. Just wish there were others whom would do the same. I am still in awe of having the opportunity to own this mega time peice. Its not the ability to purchase when it came to this clock, it was the chance and opportunity. Time pieces are few and far between that come up that have not been though the hands of jocks and dealers etc. I am only the 3rd owner of a clock that possibly has been around since 1859-1860 To get a hold of one that has not been altered, changed, updated, redone, refinished re this and re that is extremely rare and i mean extremely....! Its sure my most signifigant clock i own to this day and mighty proud of it also..

 

[bajaddict]

Hi Bob, You are more then welcome. Just wish there were others whom would do the same. I am still in awe of having the opportunity to own this mega time peice. Its not the ability to purchase when it came to this clock, it was the chance and opportunity. Time pieces are few and far between that come up that have not been though the hands of jocks and dealers etc. I am only the 3rd owner of a clock that possibly has been around since 1859-1860 To get a hold of one that has not been altered, changed, updated, redone, refinished re this and re that is extremely rare and i mean extremely....! Its sure my most signifigant clock i own to this day and mighty proud of it also..

'tis one thing to just open a fat wallet and acquire treasure..... yet another to put in the time hunting. And you HAVE put in colossal effort in this quest. I sure hope that my previous comment did not give the impression that I was diminishing your stellar efforts and I applaud your hard work and appreciate that I can reap the benefits in viewing (for free, mind you) this important collection!

 

[shimmystep]

Absolutely fantastic CM, breath taking. Delighted for you, congratulations! Thanks for sharing! Moved your favourite armchair in front of it yet?

 

[ClockMogul]

Absolutely fantastic CM, breath taking. Delighted for you, congratulations! Thanks for sharing! Moved your favourite armchair in front of it yet?

I am just in awe of it. Never in my wildest dreams think I would own a E Howard Astronomical Regulator and to land one in original condition..

 

[ClockMogul]

The "Rest of the Story" on how I obtained my 1st Howard Astronomical Regulator. In December of 2011 while google searching on George Jones Astronomical Regulator, I seen a link to a place that said "Come see our George Jones Astronomcical Regulator". It is a antique shop here in NE Ohio. So I called the shop and got there business hours to see when they were open. That saturday my wife and I drove to the shop to see this splendid time piece and was htinking that surely i could talk the guy into selling it to me.. NOT...! Spent several hours just in awe of htis gorgeous and mamouth floor clock. While i was there the owner ask if i was a member yet of the NAWCC and that i really needed to joint, etc..etc.... Then he says where do you live and i said that i am in NW Ohio not far from Toledo. He says... Hang on a minute i think i have a calling card for a guy in your area that has a clock and watch repair shop and that i might want to give him a call sometime. He told me he may know of possibly things that come up forsale that he may have on consignment or worked on. So a few days later after i got home, I called the guy and told him how I had heard about him. Then 1st thing i ask is do you have any clocks..? HAH He was hesitant to say but finally he says i have a very interesting Howard Astronomical Regulator No25 and it is NOT 4sale..! So I kept calling and emailing to see if mabe one day he would have me over to atleast take a peak at it.. I had no luck for many months to come and was wondering if it even existed. Then one day out of the clear blue he calls me and asks when i was free? I said anytime.. We set up a day and i had headed over to visit him. On my way over iwas hoping that there was issues with htis clock so that i would never ever have to worry about hounding him to buy it. When i got there and walked in the door , my stomach just tied in a knot. It was something i could have never even dreamed of having a chance to own.

The rest of the story is history now.. Just interesting on how things happen and turn out...

 

[melikesclocks]

Hmmm, you don't have kids do you? Are they interested in clocks? If not, I will gladly give your clocks a home whenever they need to go to the next caretaker. I'll even put a picture of you up on each one.

Eric

 

[Bruce Barnes]

Interesting,there is one coming up at auction at one of the more familiar auction site...............
Bruce

 

[ClockMogul]

Interesting,there is one coming up at auction at one of the more familiar auction site...............
Bruce

The one coming up 4sale is a Howard No23 with 16inch dial and 90 day movement. They sure lowball the estimates ....

 

[Bruce Barnes]

Thanks CM,learned something new today........................what are the differences between the 23 and the 25?
Bruce

 

[ClockMogul]

Thanks CM,learned something new today........................what are the differences between the 23 and the 25?
Bruce

E Howard Astronomical No23 16 inch Silvered Dial and 7feet 3 inches Tall

E Howard Astronomical No25 14 inch Silvered Dial and 6feet 9 inches Tall

Taken from E Howard Catalog 1874

 

[ClockMogul]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pBvKlCtM1U&feature=player_embedded


I have now added a updated You Tube Video of The E Howard Astronomical Regulator No25

Would like to know if anyone else out there with a No25 would chime in as I am currious about this exact model.. I am starting to come to reason htat this is a very early version of a No25 dating to possibly as early as 1859.

What other Astronomical Regulators did E Howard make in 1859..?
Can we say that these type Drum Heads are the only style/type made in 1859..?
What indicators can we use to differentiate between a 1859 No25 and one from the 1880's..?
Does a single jar mercury pendulum indicate a earlier version of a No25..?
Does the Silvered Dial connected directly to the case instead of the movement be a indicator of a earlier year of manufacture..?
Does a single legged crutch with counter weight be a indicator of an early style E howard Movement in a No25..?
Does a completely finished back of clock vrs one that has bits and pieces on the back mean anything..?
Does the beat scale signed "E Howard & Company" indicate anything...?

These are some things I am starting to think that point to this being a very very early (possibly 1859) E Howard Astronomical No25..

 

[ClockMogul]

On my bicycle ride this am (0430) I was pondering how personal opinion without documented proof can possibly lead to the spread of incorrect information. Here is an example of what I mean. About 5 years ago a auction house in up state New York sold a E Howard No23 Astronomical Regulator. The auction house was told the following about the time piece from several of the authorities on E Howard Astronomical Regulators..

(1) E Howard & Co NEVER made a Astronomical Regulator with a single jar mercury pendulum.

(2) E Howard & C0 NEVER made a Astronomical Regulator movement with a single legged crutch & counter weight.

My question is.. Do we have documented written proof that this is 100 percent correct and right or do we possibly spread incorrect information that then continues to carry on as fact.? I will at the bottom of this message post the link to the time piece in question. I have learned over the years that if you can not provide me with written factual evidence indicating one way or another, that it is nothing then but just a personal opinion. With the internet and google search now, the spread of undocumented information runs rampant. I have spoken with the auction house and he is aware of my E Howard No25 Astronomical that has some very exact traits as the one they sold 5 years ago. So what does one think..? Surely there must be opinions besides mine about the spread of undocumented evidence no matter what we are talking about.

Auction Item - E. Howard & Co., Boston Astronomical Observatory Regulator

 

[harold bain]

Jerry, I've found when it comes to clocks, it's better to never say never, as someone will come up with evidence to prove you wrong. And, certainly there is much wrong information out there on the net.

 

[ClockMogul]

Jerry, I've found when it comes to clocks, it's better to never say never, as someone will come up with evidence to prove you wrong. And, certainly there is much wrong information out there on the net.

Hi Howard, yes you are correct and i am also aware of never saying never, even if you are a expert about a paticular subject matter.. here is another example to go against popular misinformed paticulars about E Howard Astronomical Regulators..

(a) I was told that E Howard & Co "NEVER and I mean NEVER signed there beat scales. So please be so kind as to chck out the beat scale in mine as well as the beat scale of an almost identical clock like mine that i posted a link to previously. They both have signed beat scales that are inscribed "E Howard & Co" Just another of the myths passed along as gospel as far as i am concerned.

 

[124Spider]

What a fabulous, beautiful clock!

 

[Bruce Barnes]

Just for fun the Howard #23 went at auction for 125,000.00 + + and not as good looking as your #25.................
Bruce

 

[Kevin W.]

Clockmogul, you have a awesome clock collection, that clock is just awesome, i have never seen one in real life but i know its over whelming.

 

[ClockMogul]

Update information on this E Howard No25 Astronomical Regulator

I had the honor today of speaking with a extremely knowledgeable person on Howard Astro's. Some things I had learned today about my time piece.

(a) The movement is the earliest style used from 1855 to about 1858 and that most likely mine is right about 1856.

(b) Beat scales are both signed and unsigned.

(c) One legged crutch is a carry over from Howard & Davis

(d) These Astronomical Regulators prior to 1858 had no model or type number. They were just called "Astronomical Regulator"

(e) The raised dome on top dust cover for protruding verge is also a carry over from Howard & Davis

(f) Single jar mercury pendulum is another very early trait of the E Howard & Co Astronomical Regulator

(g) Dial connecting directly to the wooden bezel is another trait of the early years of Howard.

So with all of this taken into consideration, this has to be one of the very very earliest E Howard Astronomical Regulators. What i also learned today is that from when E howard started keeping records of the production of Astro's in about 1870 till the end of production of them about 1904 that they only made about 400 of htem in that time frame. So from 1855 to about 1870 how many did they make..? Surely not as many as they did from 1870 to 1904. To me that is not very many of these time pieces made for such a long time period. Cost had to be a big factor in this equation.

If anyone has any knowledge or information about this matter, it sure would be nice if you would chime in. These time pieces are simply amazing..

 

[harold bain]

Certainly these were both expensive, and would only appeal to the scientific community. Nine of them were made in the 1870's to be disbursed to different parts of the world to record the transit of Venus.
See this thread for a bit of information:
https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?39864-Transit-of-Venus-Expedition-clock

 

[ClockMogul]

Certainly these were both expensive, and would only appeal to the scientific community. Nine of them were made in the 1870's to be disbursed to different parts of the world to record the transit of Venus.
See this thread for a bit of information:
https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?39864-Transit-of-Venus-Expedition-clock

I am sure they were quite expensive back in there day and today they are out of control and sky rocketing higher by the year. E Howard Astronomical Regulators are as sought after as any other clock on the market and have even surpassed in interest over american period clocks for the most part. This is according to a very high end seller of american period clocks on the east coast. There is very very few of these time pieces in existance and the ones that are around are secured in some of the finest private collections as well as public and private museums. You can most likely say that there popularity and demand will continue to grow. These Astro's were super scarce 40 years ago and still to this day are extremely scarce. Very very seldom does one come up forsale and when they do, they are snatched up for some record setting prices. Consider yourself extremely lucky if you could ever stumble upon one of these incredible pieces of truw "Americana"..

 

[ClockMogul]

Just for fun the Howard #23 went at auction for 125,000.00 + + and not as good looking as your #25.................
Bruce

Yah that one went for a buck and a quarter plus the 22% juice and sales tax if your not a dealer.. That one did have a few cosmetic issues however it still was really really nice. These Howards Astro's are highly prized and sought after by many. Plus there was very very few of them ever made. You never know what will surface at any time..

 

[ClockMogul]

Can anyone say anything about the winding key that came wiht the Astro..? Not sure if the handle is ivory or..Not sure. I have not seen another winding key that came with a pre1870's E Howard Astronomical Regulator and currious about mine..

 

[ClockMogul]

Some interesting information to add here about the Howard Astronomical Regulator 20 Series Time Piece. According to the E Howard & Co log books for clock production from April 22, 1871 to May 5 1874, the company had only made a total of (seven) No20 Series that consists of the Model 22, 23, 24, 25. The break down as follows according to the ledgers.

5/4/1871 #24

4/24/1871 #22

4/20/1871 #25

8/12/1872 #22

11/27/1872 #24

2/17/1873 #23

12/5/1873 #25

So if the records are correct E Howard & Co made 7 (seven) Drumhead 20 Series Time pieces in 3 years time. Seven of something by a huge American Clock Manufacture Company in my opinion is not very many at all. I am not sure what a Model 36 Howard is but there was 100's of htem listed. I scanned each of the 7 Astro's and will be listing them later. In the ordering info for each of htose astro's every single one of them had something the customer wanted special done to the time piece.. Very very interesting and know you can see why these clocks are so few and far between...

 

[ClockMogul]

This is a E Howard No25 Astronomical Regulator that was logged in ledger April the 20th 1871. Interesting to note that the customer wants 3 inches cut off of the bottom of the case. Mabe this is one of the reasons i find no two of these No25's that are the exact same height...

 

[ClockMogul]

My research continues into what exactly did E Howard & Company make in the way of Astronomical Regulators in there very earliest years of the company. From the records that are available, it appears to me that the ONLY Astronomical Regulators they made in the 1850's to late 1860's is what today we call the Drumhead Series (22, 23,24, 25) I find no indication what so ever that any other types of astros were produced in that time frame. Can anyone show me something to the contrary ..? Yes I am aware that by the 1870's the Victorian Era had begun and the case styles became much much more elaborate and fancy compared to the Drumhead Era. Surely there is someone out here on the net with some more information to provide and i surely welcome it.

 

[ClockMogul]

Is there a source for any type of E Howard & Company literature, brochures, sales catalogs, journal publications etc that is 1869 or earlier..? I am looking for some sources of information that will help me in my research of the No20 Series Astronomical Regulator.

 

[harold bain]

Jerry, try contacting the NAWCC library to see what they might have.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Thank you for the frequent enthusiastic updates which seem to occur with immediacy as each little bit of information becomes available about this clock and the 2 others.

You have much good information to share about your clocks and I'm sure there are many who appreciate the contributions to the field you are making. Furthermore, I can certainly appreciate great enthusiasm about a new acquisition and the thrill of being at the top of a forum. Something I sure like to experience, too!

However, short of reporting natural disasters and other situations where immediate updates may be indicated, doesn't scholarship benefit from compiling information and spending time for consideration and then presenting more of a synthesis of what has been learned??

Just a thought.

RM

 

[ClockMogul]

Jerry, try contacting the NAWCC library to see what they might have.

Hi Harold and thanks. I did manage to get a hold of them and just like i thought. There is no literature, sales catalogs, or any other frms of advertising that depict the Astronomical Regulator prior to 1870.. Is it possible that there was no such thing from E Howard and Company this early.. Hoping someone might have something like this to share.. CM

 

[abiello]

I am thrilled and proud of new newest addition to my collection. For almost a year I have been pursuing this time piece. I was South East of Cleveland, Ohio looking at the New Haven No 0 I purchased and the guy says before i left, I think there is a guy right down the road from you that has a E Howard Astronomical Regulator. So I was given his name and phone number. This is a very early version of a No25. For all that it matters, I have not yet heard or seen any pictures of another No 25. yes I have seen over a dozen No23's but not a 25. The No25 stands 6ft 9 inches tall and 21 inches wide with a 14 inch dial. This time piece has a single cut glass large diameter mercury jar. Also the movement on this is very very early and unusual that it has a single legged crutch with a counter weight on opposite side. The case has its original finish with lots of alligatoring and crusty..Original silvered mirror on back with oval side glass panels. This was on the top of my wish list and never in a million years think i would stumble on one right down the road from me.

Hi I just acquired an E Howard astro movement with a single legged crutch. From what I read I know it should have a counter weight on opposite side. I do not have the counterweight or where it goes on the movement. Any help will be appreciated thanks Tony Biello. tbiello1@comcast.net