E & G W Bartholomew wood works bell and back cover

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by klokwiz, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    Feb 4, 2009
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    Hi, I have two concerns about this project.
    1) the bell seems a bit odd. Is it possible this is original or likely a replacement? it is mounted on a bracket attached to the back board with a single screw. there seems to only be one screw hole in this area, so it has been mounted in the likely original hole if it is a replacement. It seems to me that these would normally have a bell turn over with screw thru center into the board. What do you think?

    2) the back board has a wood board placed over it nicely beveled on sides that covers the open hole where movement sits. Was this case originally designed with back plate of woodworks exposed and someone fashioned a board to protect it? was this a common practice at one time? as an update to keep dust out?

    thanks, Joe

    bell.jpg full label.jpg movement and bell.jpg backboard closeup1.jpg backboard closeup2.jpg backboard closeup3.jpg backboard2.jpg
     
  2. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    The bell would have been cast iron and would have mounted on a single screw, reversed from the mounting of your current bell. And the wood on the back board is a more recent addition. On some of this period clock there is a tin panel that covers the back of the movement, and in many cases the backboards are solid. Sometimes well meaning folks cut out the backboards to service parts of the movement and then add a board or a piece of metal to cover the hole they made. I think yousr originally had the tin plate covering.
     
  3. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Any pix of the front? Just curious about it.

    And what Jim said.

    RM
     
  4. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    RM picture of front of movement or of clock? I will post
    Jim, agreed it must have had some sort of cover since the movement sits in the cutout. Did they ever just leave movement exposed I mean the maker? How were the tin covers mounted? Were they designed to be removed for servicing?
     
  5. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    There are usually several small tacks that hold the panel on the back of the clock. I don't know that I ever saw a WW clock with the cut-out backboard that did not have traces of having had a panel, most likely placed there originally. Too much dust and dirt will find its way into the pivots, with resultant wear, if it is not covered. I can't say they were service accessible, there is not much you can do with the movement from the back in place in the clock.

    IMG_6760.JPG s-l16006.jpg
     
  6. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    Jim, thanks for that. Yes there wouldn't be too much in the way of maintenance to do while in the case. From the sounds of it they weren't made to be removed unless taking case apart. I suspect this clock lost it's tin panel and a repairer substituted this wood panel. I guess I could find an old tin panel and restore it, no rest for the weary. Will probably see if the panel will com loose readily to examine the wood behind it.

    RM posting photos of front of clock. The upper glass was gone, was held in with putty. the lower glass had a print installed with putty, glass must have been broken afterward. the dial is nice and hands were on clock but removed by me. no weights. label is in good condition with 98% still there staining at bottom. the stenciling though darkened is intricate especially the columns. When removing the print I found that the glass must have been the original it is old and has remnants of the reverse glass painting around about 50% of the glass edge behind original putty. I have cleaned and took photos of glass in hopes of figuring out what was there originally. it appears to be a curtained scene of some type as I see red along sides and top of glass. Hope to create a restored glass for it.

    clock front full.jpg clock lower door panel.jpg dial thru door.jpg glass removal lower door panel.jpg reverse glass paint1.jpg reverse glass paint2.jpg reverse glass paint3.jpg reverse glass paint4.jpg reverse glass paint5.jpg
     
  7. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    hi purchased a cast bell for clock but then discovered it will not fit under movement if mounted in existing backboard hole. since there is only one hole there must be some other configuration for the bell on this clock. I'm hoping someone can help. the cast bell will not fit under movement using the existing hole. and this is only existing hole. the brass bell was mounted in clock the cast is the new one. the hole to the lower left of eagle has no thread marks and looks like it might have been for stabilizing clock to wall besides bell would be too far from hammer Joe

    bell1.jpg bell2.jpg bell3.jpg bell4.jpg
     
  8. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

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    Maybe a coiled gong was there?

    Aitor
     
  9. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    The firm of E & GW Bartholomew was in business 1831-1833 per Ken Roberts book on Eli Terry and Conn Wood Works Clocks. The earliest use of wire gongs documented in cases is 1835 and Jerome claims they were not invented until 1836, so it seems unlikely this clock had a gong. It appears as if the bell Joe has located is perhaps too small a dia and the hole was for a bell mounting? See this photo of another by E. & G.W. Bartholomew

    bartholomew et al.jpg
     
  10. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    In my limited search I cannot find any photo of a Bartholomew clock that had a cutout with a tin cover.

    Is it possible that this movement is not original to this clock and the cutout was done in order to fit the movement?

    It appears that the original bell may have been centered on the label where the missing piece in the upper left is circular in nature.

    It might be interesting to see a photo of this clock showing the inside, top to bottom, as in Jim's picture.
     
  11. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    My thinking is the backboard and label may well be from a taller clock, a clock more like the photo I showed above. I generally associate the tin backplate approach to P&S and transition clocks but some of the bronze looking glass style clocks may have had them originally too, but not frequently. I have seen such a retrofit of a Jeromes thin movement case later fitted with the thicker and more reliable Terry type movement. I think this case to be a bit later than the Jeromes thin movement case, but who knows? Can't tell from the limited photos and it seems a bit short for the thin movement cases?
     
  12. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    Jim/Dick, thank you for your interest in this. I am not sure at this point what to do to determine what has occurred with this clock. do we need the height and depth of clock? what else might shed light on this? Is there a way of determining if this is correct movement for this case /maker? Joe.
     
  13. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    How about a photo as shown in Jim's image, post 9
     
  14. klokwiz

    klokwiz Registered User
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    hi, here is the full length inside case photos. photo without movement, with movement, with dial, and dial for alignment. The dial sits high in door window. lower dial mount wood has been lowered 1/4 inch. Joe

    inside case full.jpg inside case full w-movmt.jpg inside case full w-dial.jpg inside case dial closeup for alignment.jpg
     

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