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Dutch verge fusee watch
- Thread starter remo87
- Start date
Wild guess borne of intuition more than anything else, looking at thickness of the movement, pillars, decorations, would be around 1700 give a decade or two. Very nice engraving on the watch plate.
Well, quick google search yielded this from British Museum, which suggests 1700-20, and confirms my intuition.
Robert
Biography
Clockmaker/watchmaker. Father of William Gib (q.v.).
Born circa 1670, probably in England. Working from 1699 until his death in 1739 in Rotterdam, Holland.
Living c1700 at the Visssersdijk but also having the address Blaak 2 in Rotterdam.
Married to Anna Rommilius, with whom he had ten children, of these William Gib junior (q.v.) and Pieter Gib where watchmakers.
Well, quick google search yielded this from British Museum, which suggests 1700-20, and confirms my intuition.
Robert
Biography
Clockmaker/watchmaker. Father of William Gib (q.v.).
Born circa 1670, probably in England. Working from 1699 until his death in 1739 in Rotterdam, Holland.
Living c1700 at the Visssersdijk but also having the address Blaak 2 in Rotterdam.
Married to Anna Rommilius, with whom he had ten children, of these William Gib junior (q.v.) and Pieter Gib where watchmakers.
That’s a beautiful movement!
According to Baillies
GIB (GIBB, GIBS)—
William. Rotterdam. ca.1710-ca.1770. Watch S.M.S.K. Three watch mts. G.M. Watch mt. École d'Horlogerie, Geneva, p.c. watch, repoussé sd. D. COCHIN, Ilbert coll. l.c. clock
Or his son
William, jun. Rotterdam. Mid. 18c. Watch Ilbert coll.
Considering the style, I would guess it would be Gibb senior. At serial number 99, that is a very early piece by him, so could be first quarter of 18th century.
Also, I have a movement by Gibb junior but it matches closer to mid to late century styles.
Regards,
Chris
According to Baillies
GIB (GIBB, GIBS)—
William. Rotterdam. ca.1710-ca.1770. Watch S.M.S.K. Three watch mts. G.M. Watch mt. École d'Horlogerie, Geneva, p.c. watch, repoussé sd. D. COCHIN, Ilbert coll. l.c. clock
Or his son
William, jun. Rotterdam. Mid. 18c. Watch Ilbert coll.
Considering the style, I would guess it would be Gibb senior. At serial number 99, that is a very early piece by him, so could be first quarter of 18th century.
Also, I have a movement by Gibb junior but it matches closer to mid to late century styles.
Regards,
Chris
This book is a good starting point:
Brian Loomes
“Watchmakers and Clockmakers of the World”
Regards,
Chris
Well, it says 'Will: Gib Jun.' on the movement, so I would suppose it would be Gib junior not senior.
Or am I missing something?
JTD
Last edited:
Remo87,
Let me wind back this conversation a bit and clarify a few things.
Firstly, I think you have a lovely watch. Dutch watches are some of the most beautifully finished in my opinion and represent an underappreciated area of collecting perhaps because materials and artifacts in museums are in a foreign language. If you are interested in this topic, I would recommend Cees Peeters book "Hollandse Horloges." It has good photography and the text can be translated into English with mobile apps like Google Translate, which is what I usually use. I have a similar item made by Jacobus vand Hegge which is earlier than your Dutch watch. Its pictured on my research website colonialwatches.com here: ColonialWatches.com - English Pocket Watches. By the way, there is nothing about Gib Junior in Loomes' book other than saying that he worked mid-century.
I think your watch was made circa 1740.
As your movement shows, it was made/retailed by Willem Gib Junior and is serial number 99. He was born in 1707 and is the son of Willam Gib senior (and brother of Pieter who also followed his father in the trade). The family is of Scottish heritage. Willem Junior married in 1733 and was still working in 1780. All in Rotterdam, a well-known city for clock and watchmaking. His shop was on West Nieuwland and the corner of Vissersdijk.
The movement seems to be in good condition. Your dial is also in great condition and may very well be original. Take a look at where the dial posts are pinned to the plate to see if there are extra holes. In general (but certainly not "a rule"), the transition of moving from a silver champleve dial to an enamel dial in the Netherlands was 1730-35. The silver case, having the same serial number and of a good fit is original. It was also made in Rotterdam likely by Samuel Simons (also known as Simons Samuel - - my silversmith books are unclear). But importantly, he worked 1730 to 1745 and that, along with the style/finish of your movement, fits a date of 1740 well.
Congrats on a very nice find that appears to have been well taken care of. If you like early English / European watches, I would suggest you join the British Horology Chapter. I'm positive they would be interested if you would like to do a writeup on it for their newsletter.
Let me wind back this conversation a bit and clarify a few things.
Firstly, I think you have a lovely watch. Dutch watches are some of the most beautifully finished in my opinion and represent an underappreciated area of collecting perhaps because materials and artifacts in museums are in a foreign language. If you are interested in this topic, I would recommend Cees Peeters book "Hollandse Horloges." It has good photography and the text can be translated into English with mobile apps like Google Translate, which is what I usually use. I have a similar item made by Jacobus vand Hegge which is earlier than your Dutch watch. Its pictured on my research website colonialwatches.com here: ColonialWatches.com - English Pocket Watches. By the way, there is nothing about Gib Junior in Loomes' book other than saying that he worked mid-century.
I think your watch was made circa 1740.
As your movement shows, it was made/retailed by Willem Gib Junior and is serial number 99. He was born in 1707 and is the son of Willam Gib senior (and brother of Pieter who also followed his father in the trade). The family is of Scottish heritage. Willem Junior married in 1733 and was still working in 1780. All in Rotterdam, a well-known city for clock and watchmaking. His shop was on West Nieuwland and the corner of Vissersdijk.
The movement seems to be in good condition. Your dial is also in great condition and may very well be original. Take a look at where the dial posts are pinned to the plate to see if there are extra holes. In general (but certainly not "a rule"), the transition of moving from a silver champleve dial to an enamel dial in the Netherlands was 1730-35. The silver case, having the same serial number and of a good fit is original. It was also made in Rotterdam likely by Samuel Simons (also known as Simons Samuel - - my silversmith books are unclear). But importantly, he worked 1730 to 1745 and that, along with the style/finish of your movement, fits a date of 1740 well.
Congrats on a very nice find that appears to have been well taken care of. If you like early English / European watches, I would suggest you join the British Horology Chapter. I'm positive they would be interested if you would like to do a writeup on it for their newsletter.
It is interesting, well to me anyway, that the adjustment for the verge is a wedge in the English style rather than a screw in the continental style.
There is also another very good reason for dating the watch as 1740 or before: the watch is still signed Will. Gib Jun.
At the dead of his father, William Gib Junior would have been addressed simply William Gib and he would sign his watches as such.
Unfortunately exact year of death of WIlliam Gib Senior is not known, but there are hints that should have been around the 1740-1750.
Ciao
This was my guess, about 1740-1750, at the first look and without researching who the maker might have been.
It seems that Robert's post has not been followed up by later contributors.
William Gibb Snr (probably born in England and date of death given as 1739 in Rotterdam as noted by Robert)
William Gib Jnr
There arer photographs of a movement signed by Gib senior (which can be reproduced freely for non-commercial purposes)
and also a description of a calendar watch signed by Gib jnr, but only a photograph of the later watch paper ...
John
Last edited:
Wow, what a mine of information, I thought that this watch was made a bit earlier and its face is later, but this one fits perfectly to the movement, so probably is original. Unfortunately the glass and outer case seems not from this watch.
Probably it is one of the best my purchases ever, I found this watch in so called "scrap" but it looks beautiful and works perfectly
Probably it is one of the best my purchases ever, I found this watch in so called "scrap" but it looks beautiful and works perfectly
Scrap
Where? Please answer by PN, so that there does not appear a crowd at the location
Where? Please answer by PN, so that there does not appear a crowd at the location 
i want too!!Scrap
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