Dueber-Hampden Private Label Watches

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Dave Coatsworth, Jan 23, 2018.

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  1. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Please post your Hampden private label watches in this thread. When posting, please include photos whenever possible (obeying copyright law, of course). For the description, please provide the serial number, model and grade information, and any information you have obtained about the retailer who's name appears on the watch. The more information, the better. We would like to make this more than just a list. It will, hopefully, become a prime resource for private label research. Thanks in advance to all who contribute!
     
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  2. Brad Maisto

    Brad Maisto Registered User
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    #2 Brad Maisto, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
    7F1780AC-CBB4-4698-AC95-4183E947B8D9.jpeg BE759882-4727-4D84-BB23-699EFD7B1AF5.jpeg 62BDBF50-6B9B-4C06-874C-A1D1152DE64B.jpeg 532465EF-B2C2-4D73-817A-C58270233AE7.jpeg I have had this PL Hampden with only the movement being marked. It is OF, 18S, Model 3, Grade no. 58, serial number 272,757 with M. (D.?) Schrader, DuQuoin, Ills. and patent pinion marked on the nickel DMK movement. The dial is a single-sunk white enamel with “Hampden Watch Co” in block printed letters. The case is a triple-hinged Dueber coin silver with serial number 272,316. I think I picked this up in Toronto, Canada many years back. DuQuoin is in Perry county, IL and was serviced by the Illinois Central back in the day. I have been unable to find further information on the PL. Brad Maisto, KY Floral #44 Secretary
     
  3. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    I only have/had a few PL Hampdens and will post pics when they surface from the great pile. I also have several of J. C. Perry's memo books from the 1880s wherein he recorded quite a number of PL orders.
     
  4. Jerry Treiman

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    This is just a low-grade 7-jewel ladies watch (3/0 size - Molly Stark grade), but I bought it because it is from my hometown - Sheboygan, Wisconsin. The jeweler was Jos. S. Grasser.
    Grasser_f.jpg Grasser_d.jpg Grasser_m.jpg Grasser_sig.jpg
     
  5. Greg Frauenhoff

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    Two pages from one of John C. Perry's memo booklets. First is from 3/6/85 and shows an order for 6 mvts to be engraved L. T. Baker, Minneapolis, Minn. No mention is made of marked dials.

    img570.jpg

    Second is from 3/19/85 and shows an order for 12 mvts to be engraved L. Huber, Louisville, Ky., and also "on dial Leonard Huber". There is also a specific charge of $6 for "name on dial" of the 12 mvts (i. e. 50 cents each).

    img571.jpg

    There are many examples in these memo booklets showing that many PLs were ordered with markings engraved on the movement only and that marked dials were an extra charge. So don't assume (especially for c. 1885 and earlier mvts) that a PL Hampden must have a PL marked dial.
     
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  6. Greg Frauenhoff

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    June 18/83 order from O. S. Clayton, Aurora, Ill. At this time Hampden was charging 2 cents per letter for engraving. Note that there is no mention of name on dial.

    img573.jpg

    Here is an O. S. Clayton PL Hampden from roughly the time of the order above. I don't remember if it came to me with a dial or not but I am certain that if it did that the dial was not marked for Clayton. This particular mvt has the hollow center staff seen on some early Hampden stem-winders.

    img574.jpg img575.jpg
     
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  7. Greg Frauenhoff

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    Methinks that the Hampden "Lakeside" mvts were a "grade" specific to Chas. Wendell & Sons, so perhaps they can be considered a private label. Me also thinks that, similarly, "Menlo Park" was a grade specific to C. H. Knight & Co. Or maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, here are a couple of ephemeral items relating to the Lakesides. On second thought, there appears to be an issue with loading the pic files. I will try again in a bit. Still getting an error. Maybe tomorrow.
     
  8. Greg Frauenhoff

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    Maybe this will work.
    Will this work. No. Still getting an error when trying to load the pics.
     
  9. Greg Frauenhoff

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    I don't know what the problem was but things are working fine this morning.

    img590.jpg img591.jpg
     
  10. Brad Maisto

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    30CA4717-A6CA-4F3A-9355-A369C2CCCADE.jpeg 31A1DA76-B6B7-4E79-BFD3-3908B0979C0C.jpeg Greg, very interesting on the Lakeside ephemera, and I just assumed that the Menlo Park I have was considered a grade of the Hampden line. This 18S, #1,991,530 is marked 17 jewels and adjusted along with the “Menlo Park” all on the mainspring cover plate, and as you see is in a cheap silverine “sidewinder” swing-out case. Where was the C.H. Knight & Co. located? Thanks, Brad Maisto
     
  11. Dave Coatsworth

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    C. H. Knights & Co. were located in Chicago.
     
  12. Greg Frauenhoff

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    Yes, but I believe they ordered the Menlo Park mvts. As I recall, there is a Knights ad in the Hernick & Arnold book that shows such. There may even be info in Perry's memo booklets. I will double check and report back.
     
  13. Greg Frauenhoff

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    1884 ad in Hernick & Arnold book.

    img611.jpg
     
  14. Greg Frauenhoff

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    Runic dial signed Charles Hagin. I don't remember what the mvt was but I'm sure that it did not have any PL markings.

    img667.jpg
     
  15. Nathan Moore

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    This is correct. C.H. Knight & Co. also ordered "Menlo Park" movements from Hamilton.
     
  16. musicguy

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    #16 musicguy, Feb 2, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
    Private Label 1890 Hampden From New London, Ct. , Louis Hahn (Jeweler)
    Unmarked movement grade 65,11j, 18s.
    It's not marked Dueber-Hampden, or PL name

    IMG_6577.jpg IMG_3614 (2).jpg


    Link to history/and other information about Louis Hahn New London, Conn.


    Rob
     
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  17. StanJS

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    #17 StanJS, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    Hampden 18S 15J HC Railway Grade Model 2 S/N 629501 ~1889
    Dial: E. P. Sundberg of Fargo, N. D.
    Movement: E. P. Sundberg

    HampdenRailwayLundbergDial.jpg HampdenRailwayLundbergMovement.jpg
     
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  18. StanJS

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    Hampden 18s 15j, Model 2, Railway grade, HC, S/N 162119, ~1882
    Dial: Hampden Watch Co
    Movement: R. Seidel Milwaukee, Wis.

    HampdenRailwayBackWeb.jpg HampdenRailwayWeb.jpg
     
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  19. Tom McIntyre

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    I decided to find the earlier thread here rather than make new pictures of my Hampden Menlo Park for C. H. Knight. There are a number of other private labels in this thread and a pretty good discussion of the topic. Hampden Forest City w/ Pierced Cock
     
  20. rschussel

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    I posted a 12 size Hampden Private Label Miller Watch Co (3,256,144).on another thread but also wanted to include it .According to Bob Arnold this is the first 12 size Hampden Miller Watch Co reported. Two 21j 16 size are known.
    Miller Watch Co. Private label Hampden 12 size dial.jpg Miller Watch Co. Private label Hampden 12 size mvt.jpg
     
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  21. kevin h

    kevin h Registered User

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    I have a Toronto Watch co , marked on dial , serial 405655

    53a613221473c13bb351d83b06128328.jpg f0227bc14f1689534c4a91e258a74f0d.jpg
     
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  22. kevinstang

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    I picked this one up last week in a local purchase, thought I was going to be able to fix it- just broken mainspring, but alas on dissassembly and inspection prior to cleaning found that a banking pin was missing and the hole had no visible threads left in it. Beyond my ability to repair. Serial number is 150,712. Dial is marked Mermod. Jaccard & Co, movement marked M J & Co's Railroad, St. Louis , Mo..

    mjhampden1.jpg mjhampden2.jpg
     
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  23. kevin h

    kevin h Registered User

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    I have an 18s model 3 , 15j , 749991 Movement marked M.F. Robinson this is an earlier one in Springfield Mass

    20180915_202234.jpg 20180915_202046.jpg
     
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  24. Lee Passarella

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  25. Dave Coatsworth

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    202005 - 'The Ontario'

    Hampden202005Mvmt.jpg
     
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  26. StanJS

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    I bought this online and probably paid too much ($56) for it given the condition. It does have an interesting private label; Max Roy. It is a Hampden, Model 3, New Railway, 17J, 18S, S/N 1051979.

    Hampden Max Roy Movement.jpg Hampden Max Roy Dial.jpg Hampden Max Roy Face.jpg
     
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  27. Rick Hufnagel

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    Boston watch co
    Boston mass USA
    Hampden model 1, sn 158857
    Grade 35, marked adjusted
    15 jewels in settings, flat Hairspring.
    Movement and dial marked.

    I had been watching this for a while, and finally got a chance at it. This is going to be a nice one when it's all finished.

    IMG_20190513_190618662.jpg IMG_20190513_190728385.jpg
     
  28. Rick Hufnagel

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    18s keywind for E.J. Brooks, Palmer Mass.

    Sn 47056. 15 jewels adjusted.

    Why is 47056 in the Hampden thread? Here's my reasoning.

    E.J. Brooks started out in 1870 making lead toys (yeah.. LEAD toys)

    In 1873 he started making security seals, and by 1875 he had switched entirely from toys, to railcar seals. He also began as a distributor that year for railroad related merchandise (the website says anything from uniforms to conductor punches, and I believe its where this watch fits in). In the early 1900s the company was awarded many patents for new security mechanisms.

    The company is still around today, albeit sold and consolidated with other companies. Still making security seals.

    I know he may have squeezed an order in 1875 from the New York Watch Co, and I can't prove otherwise, but this watch with the Hampden dial seems to coincide with the other 15 jewel adjusted Gilt watches left in stock to be finished by the Hampden watch co.

    I don't have a lot to go on with the New York watch co. Serial #s, so if anyone has proof I'm wrong, I'll gladly move this to another P.L. thread. Have a great day!

    IMG_20190724_211056391.jpg IMG_20190724_211122134.jpg
     
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  29. Fred Hansen

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    Serial 62184 marked "Fredonia Watch Co., Fredonia, NY" with unsigned enamel dial ...

    watermark.php?image=iPW11786a08.jpg watermark.php?image=iPW11786a02.jpg

    My thought is this private label Hampden was an early trial of the Fredonia Watch Co. name by the Howard Bros. prior to the start of their own production under this name.
     
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  30. Rick Hufnagel

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    Sn 203134
    Hampden 11 jewel Springfield, model 1
    Private label for Gray Brothers, Postville, Iowa. Dial and movement marked!

    I found Otis Gray listed as Jeweler in a census records, and Joseph Gray as a jeweler in the 1882 postville buisness directory... But no other info has surfaced yet. Im assuming they are the two that make up the Gray Bros.

    Check out the Gilt on this one! Wonderful! The dial is in decent shape, with an edge chip and a hairline. Hands are a mess. Should look great when done. Seems to be original dueber Newport case.

    IMG_20191013_160847020.jpg IMG_20191013_160936534.jpg
     
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  31. Rick Hufnagel

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    MF Robinson was located in Springfield, mass. Your movement is fairly certainly a Canton Ohio made watch.

    This is really neat because I have an Elgin from 1873-74 with the same private label. It's in the Elgin private label thread. I haven't been able to find much information yet, but we now know M.F. Robinson was in buisness from at least 1873-4 through the early 1890s!

    Love this forum.
     
  32. Rick Hufnagel

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    #32 Rick Hufnagel, Oct 13, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
    50655 is a Hampden 11 jewel Gilt model 1 with the Hampden style keyguard. Movement is marked "Lake Shore Watch Co, Fredonia NY". It looks exactly like Mr. Hansen's watch above except the name. Even has the same dial and hands.

    It's a recently closed auction, and I wasnt close unfortunately, but I believe that this watch coincides with the one above after reading about the Howard's, and their companies.

    Here's one very good article I read on the subject.

    The Howard Brothers and Their Fredonia Enterprises
     
  33. Rick Hufnagel

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    57710. "J.C. Perry"
    Private label for L.W. Loomis & co. Located in Carrollton, Ill

    Once again I do not have a ton of observations, but untill I can prove otherwise.. this is going in the Hampden Thread. If anyone has any information to prove one way of the other, please send me a message!

    Leverett Wilbur Loomis
    Born Feb 8, 1853
    Died in 1910

    His jewelry buisness in Carrollton Ill started in 1874, and was only one of his many successful ventures. He also excelled In lens making and mounting for telescopes and microscopes, chemistry, electricity, basically anything involving the science of mechanics. The jewelery store ran untill his death. Very interesting man to research if your ever bored. Many patents and inventions. There's mention of him donating a very large.and expensive telescope he built to Blackburn University, where they named the observatory after him.

    A great private label on a quality watch movement, hard to beat!

    Have a good day!

    IMG_20191024_160919633.jpg IMG_20191024_155810203.jpg IMG_20191025_071934333.jpg
     
  34. Rick Hufnagel

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    Forgot to add a picture of Mr. Loomis

    52443616_128254889442-1.jpg
     
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  35. Jim Haney

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    Looks Hampden all the way. Hampden Dial, Hampden damaskeen pattern & oversized KW click on the BB.

    A great very early Hampden.
     
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  36. Rick Hufnagel

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    Thanks Jim, it's identical to my regular JC Perry #57180, both sporting Hampden dials and I really believe at least most of these 57,000 Perry's and railways are Hampden. At least so far I do.
     
  37. Tom McIntyre

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    New York Watch Co.pdf For whatever reason, I tend to separate the Hampden watches made in Springfield from the Hampden watches made under Deuber's control. I am pretty sure that Dueber squeezed Perry out of the business as soon as the factory got to Akron.

    The ones made in Springfield before Dueber showed up are Rood, Cain and Perry watches. Some of the models spill over to Akron, but the operations changed pretty quickly to Dueber's new crew with Perry and Cain leaving quickly and then Rood calling his note on Dueber which led to Dueber declaring bankruptcy and Rood taking his share in cash as the settlement.

    Those three set up the Aurora short revival and the move to Lancaster to become Hamilton. That was the conclusion I reached when preparing my talk for Springfield last June.

    All the real work had already been done by Mike Harrold several years ago and is published in the bulletin.
     

    Attached Files:

  38. Rick Hufnagel

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    466623 Goodman King
    Mermod Jaccard Jewelery Co.

    I'm not sure on the grade, but I've looked at everything I can find, and it looks to be a grade 42.

    15 jewels, half nickel, unadjusted, model 2 with jewels in screwed settings. Patent regulator.

    I certainly can't tell you any more on the company than Dave has already done in his thread here. Definitely worth a read!

    The Jaccard Companies

    IMG_20191025_171937835.jpg IMG_20191025_175019604.jpg IMG_20191025_172031990.jpg
     
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  39. Rick Hufnagel

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    65984
    11 jewel Springfield grade.

    Private label for......L.W. LOOMIS!
    Carrollton, ill.

    Ya it's an exciting day today! Second early Hampden for the same jeweler... This is just too neat. These two movements could have been in the same order from Hampden.. I mean what are the chances.

    See above for the description of Mr. Loomis. Posts 33 and 34.

    The dial is fantastic as well! Very different. While looking around to see if it's original, I did find another early Hampden with the same dial. It's Unsunk, which is fitting.. as the Springfield grade is the bottom end of the Hampden lineup.

    IMG_20191113_201752964.jpg IMG_20191113_201731440.jpg IMG_20191113_201743942.jpg
     
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  40. okiejohn

    okiejohn Registered User

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    Here's a Hampden Gen'l. Stark 12s, 15j movement I picked up recently, with a PL dial, SN 1576450....still looking for a lever set friendly case for it. I guess 12s lever set compatible cases are somewhat rare, sure not having much luck finding one!
    The PL is, "The Fraiberg Brothers & Co. Cleveland, Ohio". I haven't had much luck yet finding anything on "The Fraiberg Brothers"...

    7170737ed6b77abf970c349093c4e662.jpg c0225b009f68ed6f732f66d4943ea223.jpg
     
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  41. musicguy

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    #41 musicguy, Nov 14, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  42. okiejohn

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