Does This Seem Reasonable?

[shutterbug]

I found this neat old French clock at a local antique store. It came with "the original bill of sale". I'm not doubting the date of the sale, but do you feel that this clock could be a match for it? That would be too cool! It will need some work. Right now the anchor doesn't even touch the escape wheel (too far back).

 

[new2clocks]

I'm not doubting the date of the sale, but do you feel that this clock could be a match for it?

Shutt,

The receipt is not for the clock you show.

Made in France on the movement but no country of origin on the dial indicates the clock was made between 1891 and 1909. The receipt is dated 1877.

Regards.

 

[Burkhard Rasch]

Hi Shutterbug, can You provide a closer pic of the S Marti stamp, N.thorpe has different stamps of S. Marti from different exhibitions in his "French Marble Clock" book.
Burkhard

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

I found this neat old French clock at a local antique store. It came with "the original bill of sale". I'm not doubting the date of the sale, but do you feel that this clock could be a match for it? That would be too cool! It will need some work. Right now the anchor doesn't even touch the escape wheel (too far back). View attachment 647122 View attachment 647123 View attachment 647120 View attachment 647121

Well, one fly in the ointment is the following on the movement's back plate:



That is not the name on the BOS.

Now, could it originally have been sold by J.E. Caldwell and sold 2nd hand by the other firm? I doubt it. As pointed out, the "Made in France" designation would tend to indicate a date later than 1877?

The absence of some designation of the country of origin or retailer on the dial doesn't bother me as much as they were not always "fired" into the porcelain and were often cleaned or worn off.

RM

 

[new2clocks]

As pointed out, the "Made in France" designation would tend to indicate a date later than 1877?

Country of origin on the movement indicates a "not earlier than" date of 1891.

Country of origin on the dial is post-1908.

Shutt's clock is therefore between 1891 and 1909.

Regards.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Country of origin on the movement indicates a "not earlier than" date of 1891.

Country of origin on the dial is post-1908.

Shutt's clock is therefore between 1891 and 1909.

Regards.

Ok.

Sort of said the same thing?

Just commented on why sometimes inscriptions might be missing from dial.

Relax. No one was doubting what you said.

RM

 

[Steven Thornberry]

FWIW, I also would not call this clock a round top.

 

[new2clocks]

Sort of said the same thing?

RM, as I quoted the portion of your statement ending in a question mark (post # 4), I assumed you had some confusion.

Relax. No one was doubting what you said.

I am relaxed. As I mentioned above, I assumed there was some confusion.

Regards.

 

[Chris Radano]

FWIW, I also would not call this clock a round top.

Yes, I would think it's for something like this:

Seth Thomas “Tudor No. 1” Shelf Clock

www.clockprices.com

Seth Thomas Chicago Rosewood Veneered City Clock

www.clockprices.com

Antique Gilbert Rosewood Round Top Shelf Clock

www.clockprices.com

Welch Spring & Co. Round Top Shelf Clock

www.clockprices.com

Or what $7.00 could buy in 1877 (with a warranty). Those with Tran's books have some prices at hand.
Phineas Fries sounds like something that would go with a cheeseburger.

 

[Thomas Sanguigni]

The clock is stamped made in France. J. E. Caldwell was a jeweler in Philadelphia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.E._Caldwell_&_Co. Fire destroyed the business in 1869, but remained active in one form or another for years to come. Phineas must have been a secondary retailer.

 

[new2clocks]

Phineas must have been a secondary retailer.

This could be true if the paperwork referred to the clock, but the paperwork does not refer to the clock. The date of the paperwork and the earliest possible date of the clock do match-up.

J. E. Caldwell was a prestigious Philadelphia jeweler for many years. They contracted to sell the clocks of the best German, English and French clockmakers.

Regards.

 

[Thomas Sanguigni]

The receipt may not be written well, but it does say eight day round top clock warranted.

 

[new2clocks]

The receipt may not be written well, but it does say eight day round top clock warranted.

The receipt is dated 1877. Shutterbug's clock was made no earlier than 1891.

The Tariff Act of 1890 (a U.S. law), commonly known as the McKinley Tariff Act, was effective March, 1891 and required articles of import into the U.S. to be marked, in English, with Country of Origin. Specific to clocks, the marking was required on the movement.

Either "Made in [Country of Origin]" or just the name of country of origin (without the "Made in") was acceptable.

The 1909 Tariff Act required the Country of Origin on the clock dials. Again, either "Made in [Country of Origin]" or just the name of country of origin (without the "Made in") was acceptable.

Regards.

 

[shutterbug]

The date on the bottom of the trademark appears to be 1889. I'm not sure if that's a trademark date or the date of manufacturer. The escapement upon closer inspection looks to be pin pallet, and the time mainspring is broken. The dial is a bit too worn to be porcelain, but I'm not sure about that part.
The "round top" description also puzzled me. I thought it might be because of the round movement.
But I just had a gut feeling that the receipt couldn't really be for this clock, as advertised. But it's still a cool "freeby" . The store had this one marked at $200.00. I offered them $150.00 and they took it. I'm happy with that, and look forward to having this in my "running" collection. Love the mercury dial. The mercury alone is worth most of the price
Here's a better pic of the trademark. I took it hand held without a macro, but I think it's clear enough.
You can see the "Made in France" stamp better in the 2nd pic, without the flash.

 

[new2clocks]

The date on the bottom of the trademark appears to be 1889. I'm not sure if that's a trademark date or the date of manufacturer.

That date represents the year an award was won. I believe I see the French word for "Medal" or "Medallion" within the circle. But this does not mean the clock was made in that year. The award stamp could have been utilized until Marti went out of business in first quarter of the 1900s.

Again, your clock was made no earlier than 1891and no later than 1909.

Regards.

 

[jmclaugh]

It is a silver medal awarded in 1889, a gold medal was awarded the following year so it is reasonable to assume it was likely this stamp was not in use for long.

It is a nice four glass clock which should clean up nicely.

 

[jmclaugh]

The Marti gold medal dates to 1900.

 

[shutterbug]

I appreciate the information, guys! I'm excited to get it serviced and running. It might be a while though. Work is building up in the shop
Do you guys think the metal parts of the case are brass? They have a more copper look .... but there's a lot of crud on them.