Do you know this patent?

[nuno]

Hello my friends,

I buy this watch to my collection. But he have a balance invulgar. Do you know this system. Do you tink is fault any part?

Thanks,
Nuno

 

[Dr. Jon]

The balance is brass and steel and not cut in the manner of a Guilaume or an invar balance.

 

[eric the bully]

It was a Phenix patent registered by Monnin & Rebetez in 1906
Regards enrico

 

[Bernhard J.]

The patent microregulator is obviously incomplete.

Best, Bernhard

 

[eric the bully]

Here is the original text.
Regards enrico

 

[nuno]

Thanks my friends

 

[MrRoundel]

Neat watch. I hadn't seen that type of regulator, nor had I heard of the manufacturer. The movements certainly don't look like any common ebauche, do they? I really like design of the "floating" center bridge in the watch in the left of the advertisement.

Enrico never ceases to amaze me with rather obscure research information. And he comes up with it so quickly! Amazing. Cheers.

 

[Dr. Jon]

I have seen some very similar regulators. Waltham used one and Gallet copied it.
Since this is European here is the Gallet.

 

[eric the bully]

I don't know if the definition "copied" is adequate. Woerd's patent dates back to 1870 and I don't think it lasted a lifetime.
Regards enrico

 

[Dr. Jon]

I think the Gallet watch is later than the patent. I would not have noticed teh similarity to teh Waltham form until I saw someone mistake one for these for a Waltham.

 

[MrRoundel]

I have seen some very similar regulators. Waltham used one and Gallet copied it.
Since this is European here is the Gallet.

Many years ago I serviced a similar T. Eaton watch for a friend. It had been his father's watch, who had worked for the railroads his whole life. I don't know what his dad did for the RR, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was railroad approved in Canada during his working years. The quality was quite good, IIRC.

I thought it looked very Waltham-esque overall, including the regulator. Cheers.

 

[mosesgodfrey]

I think the Gallet watch is later than the patent…

Yes, circa 1919, so I think safely beyond patent range.

 

[VinSer]

Yes, circa 1919, so I think safely beyond patent range.

The Patent was valid only two years: it lapsed on 14-08-1908.

After that anyone could use the invention freely.

Ciao

 

[mosesgodfrey]

I collect Dubail Monnin & Frossard, also have a few Phenix. So this is an interesting one for me.

Monnin Rebetez & Cie (“Croissant” brand, etc) was a separate company from Phenix, both founded after DM&F failed. Phenix later bought MR&C when it failed.

The Patent was valid only two years: it lapsed on 14-08-1908…

Good find! This is a helpful serial number dating benchmark for MR&C, so I’ll build it out a bit in case it’s useful to others:
#26,093 (see above ad from eri231) & # 36,949 (subject watch) have the patent stamped.

Net, it would be stamped between 9/1906-8/1908. The patent doc shared by eri231 lists the filing date, which became the effective date in the Swiss system once approved. Actually, it was only approved on 31 Aug 1906 (published 15 Sept). Patent was delisted on 31 July 1908 (published 14 Aug).

 

[eric the bully]

The patent was canceled in 1908, but this does not exclude that they continued to use movements bearing the patent number.
Regards enrico