Disk Pendulum Kieninger & Obergfell

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by Mark SA, Mar 23, 2020.

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  1. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    I just acquired this Kieninger & Obergfell 400 Day clock.
    I have checked the Horolovar Guide 10th Edition and cannot see a K&O with a Disc Pendulum.
    Am I missing it?
    Is the pendulum for a different clock?
    Serial Number 2295.
    Any information would be appreciated.

    20200323_123344.jpg 20200323_123352.jpg 20200323_123359.jpg !CID__17107059e87cc4dc1341_.jpg
     
  2. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    #2 etmb61, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
    Hi Mark,

    There were no Kundos with disc pendulums. You have a Becker pendulum. What you should have is 4-ball number 35 in the guide. Those can be kind of hard to find loose.

    Pend_35.JPG

    Your clock is the new lowest number in my records. Here is the previous winner with the correct pendulum: Please help date

    Eric
     
  3. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Does the Becker pendulum happen to have a serial number written/scratched on the underside? Might be something for someone to match with an existing clock.

    Kurt
     
  4. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Thank you Eric.
    I do a one or two pendulums in my scrap box I may get lucky.
    Thank you for the information.
    Much appreciated.
     
  5. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Good Day Kurt . unfortunately there are no numbers or markings.
     
  6. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Kurt , are the disc pendulums more difficult to find?
     
  7. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Mark -

    I guess all things this old are hard to find. Becker came out with a 4-ball pendulum in 1915. I'm not sure how they decided which clocks got which pendulums. I have Beckers up to the end of production with disc pendulums, but I also have a 1930 Becker with a 4-ball. I also have a 1913 Becker with a 4-ball which is not factory correct. I haven't been actively looking, but I'm sure finding a serial matching disc pendulum will be impossible.

    Kurt
     
  8. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
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    Mark, as Eric mentioned Kundo did not make clocks with disc pendulums. Your clock was made near the end of 1923, the first year of production by Kundo. Eric, for info I have eight clocks in my data with lower serial numbers, the lowest being 108. All of these have pendulum No. 35 that you have recommended to Mark.
     
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  9. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    Dear Mark I am pretty sure You got oryginal pendulum for Your Kundo clock. I am a owner of 4 early Kundo clocks that have a GB pendulum - without serial written underneath of them.
     
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  10. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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  11. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    #11 Kamil Urbanowicz, Mar 30, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
    photos from the attic clock room

    early kundos - larger type.jpg kundo 736 back.jpg kundo 736 front.jpg


    And on the disk I found one more from some old auction kundo 387 01.jpg kundo 387 02.jpg kundo 387 03.jpg kundo 387 04.jpg kundo 387 05.jpg kundo 387 06.jpg kundo 387 07.jpg kundo 387 08.jpg kundo 387 09.jpg kundo 387 010.jpg kundo 387 011.jpg
     
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  12. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    According to the lowest serial number I have in my base such Kundos 55 and 279 - please note that a disk pendulum was a choice (the standart ball was also avaible). Please if someone have some low serial number Kundo (up to 1000) please add a pictures of it. Thanks

    The second clock is inside a Gustav Becker wooden case - which is also no marriage

    kundo 55 01.jpg kundo 55 02.jpg kundo 55 03.jpg kundo 55 04.jpg kundo 279 01.jpg kundo 279 02.jpg kundo 279 03.jpg kundo 279 04.jpg kundo 279 05.jpg kundo 279 06.jpg kundo 279 07.jpg kundo 279 08.jpg kundo 279 09.jpg kundo 279 010.jpg kundo 279 011.jpg kundo 279 012.jpg
     
  13. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Thank You John.
     
  14. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    Final conclusions, becker pendulum was a option during the first year (maybe two) of Kundo 400 day clock business. Many clock was sold with them. It was a strict cooperation between Kundo and Becker at that time.
     
  15. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Thank you.
     
  16. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Hi John, any thoughts on the post below by Kamil it's quite confusing right now.
     
  17. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    I'd imagine that it would be possible that given the complexity of the pendulum, it may have been hard to keep up with the movement production numbers in the first year. Also that there may have been a feeling that the initial 4-ball design was inferior keeping sales low, initially. Or... Maybe somebody in Kamil's locale just really liked the Becker pendulums. Or that Becker had an overstock and worked a deal with KundO. That they have no serial numbers helps solidify the idea that the two companies had some agreement.
     
  18. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Thank you Martin.
     
  19. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    3 of my early Kundo clock beeing purchased in Germany and one in the UK, so I do not think that someone just really liked the Becker pendulums :)
     
  20. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Thank you.
     
  21. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Does anyone perhaps know the correct plate number for the clock? It has no holes for a suspension guard. 20200323_123359.jpg
     
  22. KurtinSA

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    About the closest I can find is #1388A. The guide shows an extra hole in the center of the plate. I've also made a note that the front plate also has an eccentric on it. Does that seem correct? Are the pallets closer to the front plate than the rear?

    Kurt
     
  23. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Hi Kurt,

    Thank you for the reply.

    There is no extra hole in the center of the plate .
    There is a eccentric nut on the front plate and the pallets are closer to the back plate than to the front.

    Regards

    MARK
     
  24. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Here are the front and back plates and a picture of the pallets. 68mm x 92mm

    Thank You

    !CID__1716831125f6c3daa021_.jpg 20200411_093807.jpg 20200411_092810.jpg
     
  25. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    #25 Mark SA, Apr 12, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020

    Good Morning Kurt

    Is it common to see a plate that has been marked with punch marks as are shown in the red. It looks like the manufacturer intended drilling the pivot holes in a different position originally, and then changed their minds. I have not seen this before.

    Also another question about the pendulum.
    Is it safe to say, that the weight of the original pendulum, if it was a four ball unit , would have to be the same any disc pendulum that replaced it, if the disc was optional offer?
    Then, would it be a different weight if it was GB replacement that was not made for that clock?

    IMG_20200412_0001.jpeg
     
  26. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Hi Mark,

    Kundo marked all the hole positions for both plates with punch marks. The marks you identified are for holes in the front plate. If you look at the inside surface of the front plate you'll find punch marks for the mainspring click parts too.

    Eric
     
  27. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Hi Eric ,

    Thank you . Every day is a learning experience. Would you agree that this may be plate #1388A. Any thoughts on the Pendulum?
     
  28. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    it is interesting that my clock has exactly the same pendulum.
    It has a large disc on the bottom and a smaller disc on the top of the gallery with six posts. I don't see the same one in the Horolover guide.
     
  29. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Hi Kamil, I love original clocks, and would love to think that my clock is original as is .
    I have spoken to Chris at Horolover and he has not heard of this Disc pendulum on the K&O.
    I have searched the internet for hours, and not found any others.
    So it is your couple of clocks and my one.
    It seems possible that it was an option, but I would expect to see more of them around, if that was the case.
    Please let me know if any other appear anywhere else, it would be very interesting.

    Thank You
    Mark
     
  30. Kamil Urbanowicz

    Kamil Urbanowicz Registered User

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    Mark the pictures of Kundo 387 are of a clock that I do not own, from what I rememeber I have somewhere the pictures of one more early Kundo that was sold on ebay with a unsigned GB pendulum - need to look for it on my computer disc. For now it is 3 standard Kundo clock with this pendulums (all without serial number) and 3 large Kundos with an extended wersion of GB pendulum (also without serials) . It is now evident that Kundo was sold also with GB pendulums, and that thiswas a option at that time. More will show up soon.
     
  31. Mark SA

    Mark SA Registered User

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    Thank you KamiI, it would be great to find more people that have one like this .
    Much appreciated.
     

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