Dimier Freres UNO watch runs vertical stops horizontal. Help?

[chas58]

Hi
My first post, so I hope this is in the right place.
I'm a newbie and I've almost completed my first stripdown, clean and rebuild on a pocket watch. I started with a cheap non runner. The movement is marked DF&C, it has 7 jewels, is Swiss made and says UNO on the winding gear above the barrel. Pure nickel case and quite slim. I've got it partially rebuilt, haven't put the hands or dial on yet. It's been ticking away for hours in my movement holder, so long as it's vertical,... but If I move it horizontal it soon stops.
I wonder if anyone can suggest what the problem is? And if anyone could tell me roughly how old it is I'd be grateful. There's a couple of dates hand scribed in the case, which I guess were done when it was serviced. One is definitely 1950, the other may be 1930, it's very faint, and has X736 scribed under it.
Google tells me DF&C is Dimier Freres (Brothers) but not much more. Any help and information would be gratefully received.
Thanks

 

[eri231]

A watch from the Swiss watch manufacturer "Dimier Freres" (DF&C) works in the watch. The La Chaux de Fonds factory was founded by Georges Dimier, probably in the mid 19th century. An exact date of foundation is not known, but the registration of the name "Dimier Freres & Co." took place in 1902. The "DF&C" brand was secured in 1896.
It can be assumed that their father Georges died and that the sons George and Edward took over and renamed the manufacture during this period.
Other brands of the manufacture were: "DAMIRA", "DIMRA", "GD", "DB", "DFC", "JAZ", "SELEX", "TEXINA", "TIC-TAC" and "UNO". The manufactory produced watches, cases and watch parts.
The branches were located in Geneva, St. Sulpice, London and Croyden (UK). In 1914 a patent (CH69988) was published relating to the Remontoir mechanism. In 1951 the manufacture presented a wristwatch with the brand "UNO". A series of table alarm clocks was launched under the brand name "JAZ".
The manufacture was last mentioned in 1973.
regards enrico

 

[Dr. Jon]

Sevfral reasons it will not run horizontal. Check to see whether the balance spring is clear in horizontal. A cap jewel may not be seated. If so the conical part of pivot rests in the surfacae of the hole jewel .
Possible the end of the pivot is broken off.

The pivot end may have a burr or the cap jewel s cracked.

Does it stop in both horizontal positions?

 

[milou]

A watch from the Swiss watch manufacturer "Dimier Freres" (DF&C) works in the watch. The La Chaux de Fonds factory was founded by Georges Dimier, probably in the mid 19th century. An exact date of foundation is not known, but the registration of the name "Dimier Freres & Co." took place in 1902. The "DF&C" brand was secured in 1896.
It can be assumed that their father Georges died and that the sons George and Edward took over and renamed the manufacture during this period.
Other brands of the manufacture were: "DAMIRA", "DIMRA", "GD", "DB", "DFC", "JAZ", "SELEX", "TEXINA", "TIC-TAC" and "UNO". The manufactory produced watches, cases and watch parts.
The branches were located in Geneva, St. Sulpice, London and Croyden (UK). In 1914 a patent (CH69988) was published relating to the Remontoir mechanism. In 1951 the manufacture presented a wristwatch with the brand "UNO". A series of table alarm clocks was launched under the brand name "JAZ".
The manufacture was last mentioned in 1973.
regards enrico

Hi Enrico

Could you please tell us the source of the information concerning the relation between the manufacturer Dimier Freres and the brands JAZ and Tic-Tac.

Thank you in advance.

Regards,
milou

 

[eri231]

Ciao Milou
Although registered as a manufacturer in reality Dimier Freres & Co. was an importer and exporter, the Jaz and TicTac brands were registered in both Switzerland and the U.K. the same data can be found on Mikrolisk.
regards enrico

 

[milou]

Thank you Enrico

I found the different "JAZ" and "Tic-Tac" references in the Mikrolisk database.
I have 60 plus JAZ alarm clocks. They were mostly manufactured close to where I live, that's why I wanted to know the connections to Dimier. I also have a Tic-Tac pocket watch but it is one with an additional logo (a hand holding a pocket watch) and according to Mikrolisk it is attributed to Edouard Blösch, Biel Switzerland.

 

[chas58]

Sevfral reasons it will not run horizontal. Check to see whether the balance spring is clear in horizontal. A cap jewel may not be seated. If so the conical part of pivot rests in the surfacae of the hole jewel .
Possible the end of the pivot is broken off.

The pivot end may have a burr or the cap jewel s cracked.

Does it stop in both horizontal positions?

Hi Dr Jon
Thank you for the hints.
I removed and recleaned the balance and reinstalled it and it is running better now. It will go for 10-12 hours in both vertical and horizontal positions. It's still out of the case in my movement holder. I'm trying to work out how to get it back in the case. It's a puzzle because the stem is held in place by a piece which is fixed with a screw that is accessible from the dial side. I need to remove the stem to get it back in and I'm not certain I can refit the dial & hands properly when it's in the case. I'll find out by trying I guess! I hope to be able to work on it later this week.

 

[chas58]

Thank you Enrico

I found the different "JAZ" and "Tic-Tac" references in the Mikrolisk database.
I have 60 plus JAZ alarm clocks. They were mostly manufactured close to where I live, that's why I wanted to know the connections to Dimier. I also have a Tic-Tac pocket watch but it is one with an additional logo (a hand holding a pocket watch) and according to Mikrolisk it is attributed to Edouard Blösch, Biel Switzerland.

Thank you Enrico and Milou for the detailed information on DF&C. It's much appreciated.
The watch I have was originally sold by T. Allcock in Shrewsbury UK and I think it is pre 1930 so it I expect it was most likely to have been made in London or Croyden. Unfortunately for me when I cleaned the dial the Allcock name wiped straight off! it must have been written on with water soluble ink. I didn't expect that and have learnt a lesson for my next watch.

Thanks again. As a new person to watches and clocks I'm finding this forum very helpful.
Regards
Chas

 

[Dr. Jon]

Installing the stem is usually down to getting the detent screw right. It has to hold the detent but allow the stem to come in. Usually this works with dial in place when you re-case the watch. If the dial has feet this is how you have to do it.

If the dial is friction fit at the edge, sometimes called a canister dial, you sometimes ahve to case the movement without the dial. This is to set up spring. It sometimes goes this way but not often.