Differences in Early Waltham's Model 57

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by artbissell, May 17, 2013.

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  1. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    Serial number indicates 1957 manufacture. A fine movement definitely authentic in a proper case. Carefully serviced by Bill Tapp who was long time owner. Has Abbott's lever set modification. Otherwise very original. Now my best early Waltham. Very well preserved movement gold surfaces.

    IMG_1754a.jpg IMG_1732a.jpg IMG_1737a.jpg IMG_1738ax.jpg IMG_1743ax.jpg
     
  2. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Very cool! I'd love to have a D,H&D... only they are way beyond my range :(. There are wonderful watches.
     
  3. Squite

    Squite Registered User

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Hey Art....I think you meant 1857...
     
  4. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Squite - good eye. My 'error correction' worked and I didn't see that ona... Actually - maybe if Waltham was still there in 1957 there would have been a re-edition, who knows ;)
     
  5. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Do I actually see that the earliest 57 model was superior quality compared to later ones?

    a.t10x.jpg a.t.8x.jpg
     
  6. nomorewatch

    nomorewatch Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

    would you like to define the word "later ones"?
     
  7. John Pavlik

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Art, an example of an inferior early one.. but it does have its original dial and case..
     

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  8. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

    John: Appreciate seeing this nice condition real early antique with pinned plates and Appleton dial. 1856-7 made? I am only now learning of the variety of these old ones. I did not realize the Dennison, Howard & Davis was the top grade early model 57? With both of these 2000 serials having been made when Waltham was Appleton Watch Co.?

    IMG_1755a.jpg IMG_1738a.jpg
     
  9. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    #9 artbissell, May 17, 2013
    Last edited: May 17, 2013
    Re: Original actual model 57

    nomorewatch: I am now a beginng learner about these old model 57s. 1860s I guess for later ones as compared to 1857 made I have seen, but I did not know of variety of these until now. Noticed the 11977 Rutland watch looks same as DH&D except for it having gold balance. I have a couple 1860+ Ellerys 7j. Seems like the Rutland watch is similar grade to the 1857 DH&D.
     
  10. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Get Ron Price's book, "Origins of the Waltham Model 1857" if you want to study the many variations. You can find it on Amazon sometimes, the NAWCC bookstore apparently no longer sells it.
     
  11. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Richiec: For many years past I had bought and sold these without much regard for their differences and age or collector values.So your book suggestion is a good one.
     
  12. Jerrell Petersen

    Jerrell Petersen Registered User

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    http://www.pricelessads.com/m57/monograph/main.pdf

    Someone has the PDF online. One of the best model 1857 resources I have seen.
     
  13. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57


    The answer to this is no and if you pick up Ron Price's book you will find the history on these and how the grades compare. I'm away from home and my books so hopefully someone will correct if I make a mistake on any of the following but some info to clarify for this thread is ...


    The Dennison Howard & Davis were products of the earlier Boston Watch Co. and would not properly be classified as Model 1857's. Higher grade DH&D were 15 jewel and lower grade were 7 jewel. DH&D serial numbers range from 1001 to close to 5000, with serial 5000 being used for a unique special piece signed DH&D but with a very different (early E. Howard & Co. style) plate layout.


    Following the bankruptcy of the Boston Watch Co. a new company was formed in Waltham in 1857 and the first products of this company were the 1857 models. This new company was originally named the Tracy Baker & Co., but a few months later renamed the Appleton Tracy & Co., a few years later renamed the American Watch Co., and in the 1880's renamed the American Waltham Watch Company. The earliest few years production of 1857 models ranged in grade from 16 jewel movements with compensation balance wheels down to 7 jewel movements with pinned movement plates. The serial number sequence began at 5001, but also early on the Appleton Tracy & Co. used some out of sequence lower serial numbers in the 1000's and low 2000's for lower grade (P.S. Bartlett and C. T. Parker) production. These low serial number 57 model Bartletts and Parkers were not contemporary with the Dennison Howard & Davis watches in the same serial ranges, but instead represent the Appleton Tracy & Co. using and overlapping serial ranges that the earlier Boston Watch Co. had used.
     
  14. John Pavlik

    John Pavlik Registered User
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    Fred, great outline, who needs books with your memory ! Thanks for clarifying the overlap numbers for Art...
     
  15. Jim Haney

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    This is a D.H&D made in Roxbury .#1483
     

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  16. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    #16 artbissell, May 18, 2013
    Last edited: May 18, 2013
    Re: Original actual model 57

    Very generously done history to CORRECT this wrongly titled thread ACTUAL MODEL 57. i have found the Waltham serial number listing matches well generally. but not apparently perfect for the really old ones. Wrote this because I was pleased the DH&D 2376 was shown as model 57 made in 1857. But was earlier Boston Watch Co.product. When? My 11977 actual model 57 marked Rutand, Vt is shown I guess properly as Appleton Tracy 1858 Bartlett in serial listing. Looks identical to the HD&D but with gold balance. I have 50593 shown in list as model 57 Ellery 7j made 1862 but clearly marked Boston Watch Co. not Appleton.:???:

    View attachment 177752 View attachment 177751 View attachment 177753
     

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  17. Jim Haney

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Art,
    I changed the title to reflect the content.
    Thanks
     
  18. artbissell

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Good one, art b.
     
  19. Jerrell Petersen

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Wow! That watch is actually 1 of only 3 mentioned in the Ron Price book as having a Roxbury train!!! Is that truly all that are known to exist?
     
  20. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

     
  21. nomorewatch

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    I have been looking into a factory stemwind Appleton&Tracy Co. grade model 57, I am wondering how I can tell which year it was produced.
    11943_a.jpg 11943_b.jpg 11943_c.jpg 11943_d.jpg 11943_f.jpg 11943_g.jpg 11943_h.jpg
     
  22. artbissell

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    Re: Original actual model 57

     
  23. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

    More specifically, that would be on the NAWCC Information Storage website, SN 1001 to 1.5M.
     
  24. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Kent: Glad to have that direct serial number reference here. I am too much of a lazy Googler. ArtB
     
  25. nomorewatch

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    Re: Original actual model 57

     
  26. artbissell

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    Re: Original actual model 57

     
  27. nomorewatch

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    Re: Original actual model 57

     
  28. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Another 57 model stemwind lever-set should be possible to switch cases with, but why would you want to break apart this nice apparently original watch?
     
  29. artbissell

    artbissell Registered User
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    NOMORE; Not sure of your intent, same production run likely same movements for parts; otherwise agree with Fred. art b.
     
  30. nomorewatch

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    I am just curious about the interchangeability of Model 57, that's why I plan to acquire a pair of interchangeable pieces to experiment. How I can know about the interchangeability better than purchasing a pair of interchangeable pieces then experiment?
     
  31. Squite

    Squite Registered User

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    I think Fred and Art's comments are directed at being more interested in keeping the integrity of a nice all original piece than seeing it taken apart for an experiment. There is respect for personal knowledge, and then there is respect for horology from a historical preservation perspective. I do not believe they are the same.
     
  32. nomorewatch

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    Re: Original actual model 57

    Thank you for telling me the importance of keeping the integrity of those pieces, and now I just found the interchangeability table in Ron Price's book "Origins of Model 57".
     

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