Differences between similar looking Haller movements

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by DieteR, May 13, 2017.

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  1. DieteR

    DieteR Registered User

    Sep 18, 2008
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    When a new clock or a new movement becomes my own, I am usually more interested in technology than in optical design.
    Whether someone likes a clock or not, has a lot to do with taste.

    My interest in technology encourages me offen to take a closer look, and sometimes also to think of experiments.

    In this thread, I try to describe the difference between some movements, which look to be initially strikingly similar.
    The movements I talk about, are three "MINIATURE / MIDGET" movements by HALLER.
    The wheel arrangement on this movements is identical.
    Looking on the backplates, only two are identical.
    But exactly these two fall out of the usual frame!
    And even differ from each other!

    What is common or usual?
    Most of these movements obviously have a gear train, which in the end ensures, that these movements,
    (with a pendulum and a corresponding pendulum wire), have their correct function with 10 beats per minute.
    For this purpose they need a unit 43, 43A, 44, 44A.

    Another movement runs at 6 beats per minute
    Plate 1160 1161 with Unit 39 (but not always - see below)

    One of my last founds is another movement with 8 beats per minute.
    Plate 1160, but which unit?

    I have searched the Terwilliger (400-Day Clock Repair Guide) and also Mervyn Passmore "ANNIVERSARY CLOCK IDENTIFICATION",
    but they don't indicate a HALLER movement of this size with 8 beats per minute.

    Of course, I have no problem to build a matching unit.
    But why I did not find one?

    What is the reason for this movements having identical wheel arrangement , but different (6,8, and 10) beats per minute?

    The only reason of the differences is the translation of the gear train.
    To know why, see the photo (Three Haller.jpg) with the corresponding explanations.
    This explanations show my way to calculate the correspondenting beats per minute
    for a movement missing the comlete suspension spring or having a defect unit.

    Talking about the second photo (DSCI1574.JPG a single work, for tinkering), according to the Plate 1160
    The text says: Unit 39 and Unit 39 says: 6 beats per minute.
    For a short time I was a lucky guy, because I like slow moving pendulums, but then .....
    After a closer look, I saw a gear train for 10 beats per minute.
    So depending on the clock in which it is perhaps installed once, needing Unit 43 or 44.
    --Or just a spare part dispenser.--

    The mainly reason to show this movement is another difference to the normal ones.
    By the way, the hands belonging to this movement can be set from behind.
    I find this option much better than fiddling on the hands.
    You do not bend the often filigran hands and scratch the dial.
    How many of our clocks were damaged exactly this way!

    I wished more of the clocks would have this feature.

  2. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    Aerospace Engineer
    San Antonio, TX
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    Interesting discussion idea. These are spring-mass systems and thus the characteristics of the suspension spring and the pendulum mass define the period of oscillation, don't they? Obviously, the escape wheel needs to be used that is consistent with the intended period so that impulses to the rotation can be fed in at the proper time. How does this factor into the entire clock system?

  3. DieteR

    DieteR Registered User

    Sep 18, 2008
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    You are right, the pendulum is a spring-mass systems and thus the characteristics of the suspension spring and the pendulum mass define the period of oscillation.
    But not the clock!

    Only The design of the movement determines the nessesary duration of the period (time).
    The gear train (the relations) between minute wheel and escape wheel Is crucial.

    The pendulum must be designed accordingly to the movement.
    You may do this by the way you like. With other spring wires, or other masses.
    But there must always be a result, fitting the movement.

    Otherwise, You have to construct a new movement.

  4. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    Calif. USA
    I would guess that the faster movements would be used in shorter
    suspension to the bob. It might be to keep the spring thickness in
    a reasonable range.
    Part of the running of these clocks is not only the spring/mass but
    also the amount of wind up on each impulse above and below the
    The rate changes were most likely related to this factor.
    Tinker Dwight
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