Dial Up/Dial Down Rates Refuse To Align

BobbyBrown

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May 8, 2022
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Hi,

Im working on a 1940s Waltham wrist watch that is giving me some trouble with the dial up/dial down rates not aligning.

I’ve checked for bent/broken/flattened balance pivots, rubbing hairspring/balance wheel, cracked jewels, equally oiled cap jewels, end and side shake and regulator pin spacing.

Everything is okay, yet the rates are still off by 15-20 seconds a day.

Did I overlook something? What am I doing wrong?
 

Randy Beamer

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Jul 5, 2011
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I'm assuming that the amplitude is also slower in the position that is showing a loss of seconds ?

In most cases, the position with the lower amplitude is the one with the problem. Check for the hairspring rubbing, banking pins being perpendicular to the plate. Have you tried polishing the pivots, re-cleaning and re-oiling ? Best of luck,
Randy
 

Skutt50

Registered User
Mar 14, 2008
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Do you have a timing machine?

Have you listened to the watch in the two positions? Soemtimes you can hear a difference giving you some ideas.

You can also remove the pallet fork and observe how the balance oscillates when it is on its own.

Have you polished the pivots and pegged the jewels.

Use avery good magnifier to inspect the tips of the pivots. A tiny bit of musheroming or a flat tip may cause this type of behavior.
 

DeweyC

NAWCC Member
Feb 5, 2007
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Hi,

Im working on a 1940s Waltham wrist watch that is giving me some trouble with the dial up/dial down rates not aligning.

I’ve checked for bent/broken/flattened balance pivots, rubbing hairspring/balance wheel, cracked jewels, equally oiled cap jewels, end and side shake and regulator pin spacing.

Everything is okay, yet the rates are still off by 15-20 seconds a day.

Did I overlook something? What am I doing wrong?
First, you almost know almost for certain it is at the balance. For situations like this you need a troubleshooting routine.

I remove the pallet and pallet bridge and reinstall the balance w/ spring. Check motion in both positions. If it oscillates for less time in one position than the other, you know you are looking at either a pivot/jewel issue or a balance spring rubbing issue (center wheel, balance arm). This will encourage you to look very closely.

If oscillation is good, replace pallet bridge. Test again and if needed look closely for fouling at bridge or bridge screw.

Next, remove spring and replace pallet. If the balance rebounds for less time in one position, then look for fouling at the roller table or the safety pin/roller jewel.

This could also be caused by the divisions (vertical alignment of the mobiles) being off due to endshakes or arbor positions. The EW and Pallets amy be misaligned. But unless you moved things, this is unlikely.
 
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