Details & photos of some of my 400 day clocks

[Ingulphus]

As John Hubby requested, here's a link to some not-really-good photos of some of my clocks, and the pertinent details.

The photos are at my Flickr site: The Clocks

#1 is a K&O marked "The National Silver Co.," and "GERMANY", plus serial #13033; it's plate #1559 in the Book. The pendulum looks like #37 (which the book indicates is much older), and has the same translucent green lacquer as the dial and columns. It also has an odd, neat, inverted-triangle-shaped bottom block, and no guide cup. I haven't had a chance to clean it or polish the brass, but it's running perfectly as is, so I'm in no rush.

#2 is what I believe is a Jahresuhrenfabrik - plate #1439 in the Book, stamped in the lower right corner "Made in Germany" in an arc and serial #80923. The pendulum looks like #21, but doesn't have the small screws at the top of the gallery as shown in the illustration. Porcelain face, beaded bezel. No cup. I need to replace the suspension spring with a longer one.

#3 is, I think, the oldest in my collection - a Kienzle, plate #1423 and pendulum #13, with the narrow gallery, although the two weight discs are shorter than what the Book shows. Serial #22090 and "Made in Germany". Porcelain dial, beaded bezel. A complicated suspension in the saddle that didn't photograph well enough to include in this batch, but it's unlike those shown in Note 188 in the Appendix. It's been an excellent timekeeper since I received it, so I haven't changed the spring nor fiddled with that suspension.

#4 is a plain, but nice, clock - Plate #1151, with Geo. Borgfeldt stamped in an arc at the upper left and serial #42312. A silvered dial. It came without a pendulum and I'm using a K&O I think is later (perhaps meant for use with a guide cup? - this clock hasn't one). I used the standard K&O spring strength as indicated by the Book, but ended up having to thin it a good deal,as it was running far too fast.

Photos of the other clocks were unusable - I was dead beat by the end of today, and too tired to fuss with a tripod - with the expected results... but the details are:

#5 is Plate #1155, stamped "Geo. Borgfeldt & Co. in a circle, with "Trade Mark" and "Coronet" in the center of the circle (I think - it matches the plate illustration as to details). No serial number. Like the National Silver clock above, it has a lacquered, machined dial and lacquered balls, with a celluloid chapter ring mounted on the dial over the lacquer. It has a pink alabaster base with an adjustable brass guide cup, and the same style pendulum as the plain Borgfeldt described above. This came to me with no crown of finials, and I don't know that it would have had one - it didn't appear that it had ever been "messed with" when I received it.

The last is another, later Jahresuhrenfabrik, Plate #1260, with the elephant & clock logo in the lower right corner. No serial number, but on the inside face of both plates is "52" and "1". A porcelain dial with floral swags in a plain bezel. A pretty clock, although I normally don't care for floral dials - this is a bit nicer than the ones used in later years. Although my photos weren't good, a very similar clock can been seen here: A JUF at auction

If you need me to double-check these details (I'm really tired now, so prone to error), let me know, but please be patient - I'm leaving town for a few days, and probably won't have Internet access until I return.

Best regards to all,

 

[Ingulphus]

As John Hubby requested, here's a link to some not-really-good photos of some of my clocks, and the pertinent details.

The photos are at my Flickr site: The Clocks

#1 is a K&O marked "The National Silver Co.," and "GERMANY", plus serial #13033; it's plate #1559 in the Book. The pendulum looks like #37 (which the book indicates is much older), and has the same translucent green lacquer as the dial and columns. It also has an odd, neat, inverted-triangle-shaped bottom block, and no guide cup. I haven't had a chance to clean it or polish the brass, but it's running perfectly as is, so I'm in no rush.

#2 is what I believe is a Jahresuhrenfabrik - plate #1439 in the Book, stamped in the lower right corner "Made in Germany" in an arc and serial #80923. The pendulum looks like #21, but doesn't have the small screws at the top of the gallery as shown in the illustration. Porcelain face, beaded bezel. No cup. I need to replace the suspension spring with a longer one.

#3 is, I think, the oldest in my collection - a Kienzle, plate #1423 and pendulum #13, with the narrow gallery, although the two weight discs are shorter than what the Book shows. Serial #22090 and "Made in Germany". Porcelain dial, beaded bezel. A complicated suspension in the saddle that didn't photograph well enough to include in this batch, but it's unlike those shown in Note 188 in the Appendix. It's been an excellent timekeeper since I received it, so I haven't changed the spring nor fiddled with that suspension.

#4 is a plain, but nice, clock - Plate #1151, with Geo. Borgfeldt stamped in an arc at the upper left and serial #42312. A silvered dial. It came without a pendulum and I'm using a K&O I think is later (perhaps meant for use with a guide cup? - this clock hasn't one). I used the standard K&O spring strength as indicated by the Book, but ended up having to thin it a good deal,as it was running far too fast.

Photos of the other clocks were unusable - I was dead beat by the end of today, and too tired to fuss with a tripod - with the expected results... but the details are:

#5 is Plate #1155, stamped "Geo. Borgfeldt & Co. in a circle, with "Trade Mark" and "Coronet" in the center of the circle (I think - it matches the plate illustration as to details). No serial number. Like the National Silver clock above, it has a lacquered, machined dial and lacquered balls, with a celluloid chapter ring mounted on the dial over the lacquer. It has a pink alabaster base with an adjustable brass guide cup, and the same style pendulum as the plain Borgfeldt described above. This came to me with no crown of finials, and I don't know that it would have had one - it didn't appear that it had ever been "messed with" when I received it.

The last is another, later Jahresuhrenfabrik, Plate #1260, with the elephant & clock logo in the lower right corner. No serial number, but on the inside face of both plates is "52" and "1". A porcelain dial with floral swags in a plain bezel. A pretty clock, although I normally don't care for floral dials - this is a bit nicer than the ones used in later years. Although my photos weren't good, a very similar clock can been seen here: A JUF at auction

If you need me to double-check these details (I'm really tired now, so prone to error), let me know, but please be patient - I'm leaving town for a few days, and probably won't have Internet access until I return.

Best regards to all,

 

[John Hubby]

Mark, I've gone through the photos and descriptions and offer the following for each one:

#1 is a K&O marked "The National Silver Co.," and "GERMANY", plus serial #13033; it's plate #1559 in the Book. The pendulum looks like #37 (which the book indicates is much older), and has the same translucent green lacquer as the dial and columns. It also has an odd, neat, inverted-triangle-shaped bottom block, and no guide cup. I haven't had a chance to clean it or polish the brass, but it's running perfectly as is, so I'm in no rush.

This clock was made in 1926, and the pendulum is No. 37. The dates shown in the Repair Guide for both the back plate (1912) and the pendulum (1911) are way off base. Kundo was incorporated in 1918, and did not begin to produce 400-Day clocks until 1923.

#2 is what I believe is a Jahresuhrenfabrik - plate #1439 in the Book, stamped in the lower right corner "Made in Germany" in an arc and serial #80923. The pendulum looks like #21, but doesn't have the small screws at the top of the gallery as shown in the illustration. Porcelain face, beaded bezel. No cup. I need to replace the suspension spring with a longer one.

This is a JUF, made in late 1909. In your back plate photo it appears there may be a letter stamped in the lower left corner. Need to know, as that will change the plate number. This pendulum was used by JUF and others and isn't recorded in the Repair Guide. Is there a serial number on the bottom of the pendulum?

#3 is, I think, the oldest in my collection - a Kienzle, plate #1423 and pendulum #13, with the narrow gallery, although the two weight discs are shorter than what the Book shows. Serial #22090 and "Made in Germany". Porcelain dial, beaded bezel. A complicated suspension in the saddle that didn't photograph well enough to include in this batch, but it's unlike those shown in Note 118 in the Appendix. It's been an excellent timekeeper since I received it, so I haven't changed the spring nor fiddled with that suspension.

Definitely a Kienzle, made in early 1907 based on the serial number. The pendulum is one that was used by JUF, Kienzle, and others, but is not recorded in the Repair Guide. Is there a serial number stamped on the bottom of the pandulum? Several Kienzle's I have in the database have this. If you can find some way to photograph the upper suspension would be appreciated so we can add that to the data if it's actually different from anything recorded so far.

#4 is a plain, but nice, clock - Plate #1151, with Geo. Borgfeldt stamped in an arc at the upper left and serial #42312. A silvered dial. It came without a pendulum and I'm using a K&O I think is later (perhaps meant for use with a guide cup? - this clock hasn't one). I used the standard K&O spring strength as indicated by the Book, but ended up having to thin it a good deal,as it was running far too fast.

This is a Kundo made in 1931, two years before the pendulum base cup was introduced in 1933. The correct pendulum would be No. 35, as that is typically what was fitted to the George Borgfeldt models. The No. 97 that you have on the clock weighs less than the No. 35, and that is probably the main reason your clock is running fast.

#5 is Plate #1155, stamped "Geo. Borgfeldt & Co. in a circle, with "Trade Mark" and "Coronet" in the center of the circle (I think - it matches the plate illustration as to details). No serial number. Like the National Silver clock above, it has a lacquered, machined dial and lacquered balls, with a celluloid chapter ring mounted on the dial over the lacquer. It has a pink alabaster base with an adjustable brass guide cup, and the same style pendulum as the plain Borgfeldt described above. This came to me with no crown of finials, and I don't know that it would have had one - it didn't appear that it had ever been "messed with" when I received it.

This is another Kundo, and in this instance (no serial number) was made about mid-1939. I have a couple other nearly identical clocks documented like this one. The pendulum is correct for the clock with a pendulum base cup. There may or may not have been a capital and finial piece, I've seen this model both with and without that.

The last is another, later Jahresuhrenfabrik, Plate #1260, with the elephant & clock logo in the lower right corner. No serial number, but on the inside face of both plates is "52" and "1". A porcelain dial with floral swags in a plain bezel. A pretty clock, although I normally don't care for floral dials - this is a bit nicer than the ones used in later years. Although my photos weren't good, a very similar clock can been seen here: A JUF at auction

This clock was made between 1924 and 1927. The Jahresuhren-Fabrik circular logo was used by itself from about 1921 (when it was registered) to about 1924. At that time the double elephant logo was added, and the two went together until late 1926 or early 1927. After that, only the double elephant logo was seen (Plate 1595).

Any questions, please advise. Will appreciate receiving confirmation of the info requested.

John Hubby

 

[Ingulphus]

John -

Thank you for an excellent analysis - I'm particularly pleased by the dating of the "National Silver" clock, as it was made the same year as my house!

As further clarification, the JUF that you posit as late 1909 has the letter "F" in the lower left corner - I can't believe I missed it on the first go-round! The pendulum was added later; it has no serial number.

The Kienzle disk pendulum has serial #22090 - the same as the movement. I realized while glancing through the Book, that the odd suspension may actually be #16 in Appendix 15 - I haven't disassembled it to see, but I've posted a decent photo of it on Flickr (the link above will have all of the new photos).

I've also added a new acquisition - another Kienzle, possibly circa 1908, according to the Book, although when I bought it I thought it was of later manufacture. It's plate #1386 (pin-pallet escapement), with pendulum #33 and suspension bracket #1, and it's wonderfully utilitarian in contrast with my other Kienzle - a plain base very like a Tiffany Never-Wind, an extra bolt at the back (with a wood insert in the base) to counteract the tendancy for the movement to bend backwards from the weight of the pendulum, and that big, easy-to-read celluloid face (marked "Made in Germany" at the base) in a plain bezel with no capital & finial piece. It also has a marked overswing - very robust, but keeps (so far) decent time!

 

[John Hubby]

Mark, that definitely is Bracket No. 16 on your clock. Not many of those around.

Regarding your new Kienzle, once again the book is wrong. The pin pallet escapement was first patented in March 1912, so your clock would not have been made prior to that. You mention the amount of overswing; the pin pallet models are some of the best and strongest runners made. The escape wheel design and use of lantern pinions allows more efficient transfer of power to impulse the pendulum. I do agree with your comments that they are quite nice looking clocks.

John Hubby

 

[Ingulphus]

You are certainly right about the overswing - about 360 degrees on the Kienzle! It's interesting when you have a group of 400 day clocks in a row, and can better observe the differences in rotation - most of mine are about 180 degrees, but the other Kienzle (with disc) is about 270.

As ever, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge - although I've been fascinated by clocks for decades, I'm really really enjoying this particular "genre"!