Deluxe p.w. from Gruens N.Y.C. custom shop

[artbissell]

Not sure when that existed. but really exotic jewelry custom cases were made there for p.w. and w.w. Probably 1916-20+. An example here sold cheaply because of only a couple cheap bidders including myself. I never expected to see one of these on ebay. It is a standard adjusted Verithin not a small size pendant watch, but a real pocket watch. Movement is original 461k which is before 1918. Case is likely unique. Platinum and good diamonds. Seems like serious collectors and others do not value this jewelry type much without a fancy well known name on it. Gruens really did try to make fine quality desireable stuff.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

Beautiful piece. Did you win it?

 

[artbissell]

Beautiful piece. Did you win it?

Yes. Attracted very little attention. Less than twice fairly low scrap value.
Glad Jeff did not have it. With his flowery accurate prose and good photos it would have not been affordable for me.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

I think I saw this watch for sale, but did not seriously pursue it because it looked too similiar to a Depollier platinum/diamond/enamel diamond P. Ditisheim in my collection. Is your watch's case by Depollier as well?

 

[artbissell]

Is your watch's case by Depollier as well?

Very interesting comparison. Not identical, but indicates Gruen got pieces from same source if not total watch except for movement with similar dial marked Gruen. Not much of a Gruen custom shop job, if any. Do not have this yet to examine. Case marked only platinum, 52100. Has wrong hour hand. I have proper one. Yours may have wrong second hand, but maybe right for different sunk seconds. If convenient, would like to see any other detail photos. I am trying to sort out the Gruen custom shop time period and products. May have done only w.w.

Same 10 or 12 size? Outside 52mm dia.? Crown and bow different?

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Art, besides the hands, crown, and possibly the bow, I see another difference between your Gruen and my similar P. Ditisheim. The Ditisheim has a black enameled rim. As you requested, here are some more photos. You asked for the Ditisheim's size: The case is about 43mm in diameter.

You say that the second hand on my watch may not be original. What makes you think so?

 

[artbissell]

Art, besides the hands, crown, and possibly the bow, I see another difference between your Gruen and my similar P. Ditisheim. The Ditisheim has a black enameled rim. As you requested, here are some more photos. You asked for the Ditisheim's size: The case is about 43mm in diameter.

Really appreciate your images. Looks like it is a case that may have had some popularity, so difficult to isolate a maker. The 43mm is near 6 size.
52mm commonly with thin 12 size, but both light weight and comfortable on a neck chain.

You say that the second hand on my watch may not be original. What makes you think so?

With good watches I do not normally see gold hands with a black sec. hand. Lots of opportunity to lose second hands for a small well serviced watch. 6s below.

 

[artbissell]

Art, besides the hands, crown, and possibly the bow, I see another difference between your Gruen and my similar P. Ditisheim. The Ditisheim has a black enameled rim. As you requested, here are some more photos. You asked for the Ditisheim's size: The case is about 43mm in diameter.

CORRECTION; 43mm is right for a 10 size case not 6 size as I wrote. 52mm was written as a total maximum dimension not diameter by seller who also gave 42.8mm for diameter. Both are identical 10-12s for 17 ligne mvt. So cases very likely from same source with minor differences and not specially made in Gruen N.Y. facility. 1929 catalogue photo and a dealer's 1927? Verithin mvt. platinum case possibly from there.

 

[artbissell]

Have received the jewelry Verithin I was a little worried about. Seems to be all original except for hour hand. Has acrylic glass as I have seen on other similar Swiss cases, not glass as is usual for Gruens. Dial is perfect, acrylic shows appropriate ageing. Not a Gruen NY custom shop job. Has proper best 17j adjusted Precision mvt. Not marked Precision which most early ones 1916? were not; dials were. Unprotected stem needs pulling out to wind and and set unlike usual Verithins. Runs with little spring tension. My photos.

 

[Barney Green]

Art,
I was lucky to acquire the same model recently, serial number of the case 522xx and a 497k movement, so it is slighlty younger than yours. It has the same black enamel ring (slightly damaged) as the Ditisheim though, probably yours originally had the enamel ring as well? The two ribs left and right of the crown are where the enamel ended and I can see them at your photos.
Wonder how one was wearing them? With the bow opposite of the crown they seem to have been thought as pendant watches but I can't think of some wearing it on a necklace... Too big for a ladies size too feminine for a gent?
Very nice piece of art, Art, anyway. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

 

[rubeg]

Here are 2 similar PW's in Pt I believe. I think these are from the Andy Warhol collection. Hope you can see the images.
jack g

 

[Barney Green]

Wow, very nice. Thanks for sharing.
These are regular pocket watches, not the unusual pendant watch construction of mine with the crown opposite to the bow. I really wonder if they were really worn like a pocket watch with the unprotected crown downside or like a pendant watch? Can't imagine that someone was wearing it on a necklace...

 

[artbissell]

Like seeing other examples here of these odd and expensive cases for good 10 to 12 size movements. artbissell