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Dating Kundo Anniversary Clock plus Pendulum

cuffyf

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Hello Everybody, My name is Charlie and I've been collecting 400 day clocks for about 2 years, so bear with me concerning clock nomenclature...I just received a K & O clock, Ebay# 282332200538 (Pictures) under "Completed Listing"..I bought the clock due to its serial# 4129. I figure it's 1st year of production. The dial is porcelain. I bought another K & O a few months back with ser# 13056, but that one has a metal face with a correct K & O pendulum. I was wondering what the date of production is on the clock. The second question involves the pendulum which is not in the Horolovar Book. It looks similar to # 39, a Schatz from 1905, but the pendulum has a flair fitting like the Wurthner# 42 on the pendulum shaft. The surprise was when I flipped the pendulum upsidedown, there was a Patent# DRGM No 403658! I checked the Horolovar Book Patent Listings and the last patent number for Germany was a 200,000 number from 1912. The next number was a 1,400,000 number from 1952. So, does the patent number fit the 1st year of production of 1923?. I honestly think the pendulum is legit for the clock, but I also think that Schatz must have had a fit because of the similarity with their pendulum.....What do ya think?
 

KurtinSA

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Welcome! I couldn't find that ebay number. [Edit - I was able to find the listing.] As for the patent number, I just did a search of it on the forum and found some interesting posts by John Hubby that might help with the dating.

It would be nice to see some pictures of the clock and pendulum.

Kurt
 
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etmb61

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Jahresuhrenfabrik (JUF) was awarded that number years before Kundo produced any 400 day clocks, so no, it cannot be original to a Kundo clock. All early Kundo clocks would have had the same ball pendulum until sometime in the 1930s when they introduced the guide cup in the base of the clock.

Here is some info on DRGM 403658:

https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php...-DRGM-403658&p=1071214&viewfull=1#post1071214

DRGM numbers are not "patent" numbers, so don't get confused there. I think it's been noted on the message board somewhere that most of the DRGM records were lost and/or destroyed during the war.
 

MartinM

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John may have better info; But, I calculate it as being made in late May of 1924.
 

John Hubby

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Hello Everybody, My name is Charlie and I've been collecting 400 day clocks for about 2 years, so bear with me concerning clock nomenclature...I just received a K & O clock, Ebay# 282332200538 (Pictures) under "Completed Listing"..I bought the clock due to its serial# 4129. I figure it's 1st year of production. The dial is porcelain. I bought another K & O a few months back with ser# 13056, but that one has a metal face with a correct K & O pendulum. I was wondering what the date of production is on the clock. The second question involves the pendulum which is not in the Horolovar Book. It looks similar to # 39, a Schatz from 1905, but the pendulum has a flair fitting like the Wurthner# 42 on the pendulum shaft. The surprise was when I flipped the pendulum upsidedown, there was a Patent# DRGM No 403658! I checked the Horolovar Book Patent Listings and the last patent number for Germany was a 200,000 number from 1912. The next number was a 1,400,000 number from 1952. So, does the patent number fit the 1st year of production of 1923?. I honestly think the pendulum is legit for the clock, but I also think that Schatz must have had a fit because of the similarity with their pendulum.....What do ya think?
Charlie, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! Thanks for posting your inquiry and info about your clock including the completed auction link so we could see the photos.

Eric and Martin's comments are correct, firstly that the pendulum doesn't go with the clock and secondly when the clock was made (Martin's "late May 1924" = spot on!).

Regarding the pendulum, it was made by Jahresuhren-Fabrik (JUF) sometime after early 1911 and before the end of 1915. The DRGM 403658 was a design and use protection sort of like a trademark but with a short initial duration of three years. These could be extended one time for an additional three years on payment of a fee, which it is evident from our research that JUF did just that. The original DRGM was granted November 12, 1909 for a 4-Ball pendulum with a different adjusting mechanism than the one on yours. It had a cross-bar at the bottom of the pendulum with an arrowhead at each end that you turned one way or the other to change the pendulum setting. That was modified and an amendment DRGM 455721 granted February 14, 1911 for the adjusting mechanism that is with your pendulum. The fact that your pendulum has the original DRGM stamp was the custom, because the amendment did not change the effective dates of the original thus that number continued to be stamped.

The correct pendulum for your clock is No. 35 as illustrated in the Repair Guide. You should be able to find one of these fairly easily.

As inferred earlier your clock could not have been made earlier than 1923 as that was the first year of production of 400-Day clocks by Kundo. The company Kieninger & Obergfell (KundO)was founded in 1918 to expand production of clock parts and materials for the trade, which was already a going business founded by Johann Obergfell in 1898. Kieninger was an engineer with an interest in making things so they started clock production about 1920 for ordinary clocks and then the 400-Day operation in early 1923. They were quite innovative but at the same time "borrowing" some ideas from established makers. For example, the movement construction is rather similar to Gustav Becker clocks.
 
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cuffyf

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Thank You guys...This was a great experience and I will definitely hookup with the right pendulum....Darn, I thought I had a winner!!!!....But then again, I did with you guys....Charlie
 

MartinM

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The pendulum you DO have is not without its own intrinsic value. Not exactly rare. But not common, either.