Dating an Unmarked JUF

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by MartinM, Mar 2, 2012.

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  1. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User
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    #1 MartinM, Mar 2, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
    Picked-up a couple of Std porcelain Classic Floral JUFs with pie crust rings. One is a real Franken-clock that has a bunch of newer parts from various decades. (two of the pendulum balls were actually filled with old watch crowns). The other clock is one I'm having trouble dating:


    • It's your standard JUF pinned plate design with holes for a guard
    • It has no text or numbers, at all, on the posterior of the back plate.
    • Both plates do have a "28" stamped on their inner sides.
    • The pendulum has an oval knop/coda as opposed to the later spike.
    • The base appears correct and has a detail I've not seen on any other clocks. As well as the channel for the dome, there is another one a bit further down the slope that impinges horizontally instead of vertically.

    Where the typical JUF base profile is Like:
    Code:
    [SIZE=4][FONT=courier new]
    [/FONT][FONT=courier new]_   _                       _   _
     |_| \                       |_| \
          \     This one is:          >
           \                         |__
            \                           \[/FONT][/SIZE]
    


    When might this clock have been built?
     
  2. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Martin, there are three possibilities for unmarked JUF back plates:

    1) Plates "without" the holes for suspension guard mounting were made before 1904.

    2) Plates "with" the holes for suspension guard mounting were made in the majority in the 1930's.

    3) Some plates, both without or with the suspension guard mounting holes, were made across the years 1904 to early 1930's. These many times can be dated by seeing the case designs and other features such as finials, pendulums, upper suspension brackets, dials, etc.

    I think I know what you are referring to with the base design, however it would really help to see photos of the base as well as the complete clock.
     
  3. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Hi Martin,

    Is this what you're refering to?

    This is from a JUF with the circlular stamp, but I have another with the same profile base with the double elephant mark.

    Eric
     

    Attached Files:

  4. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User
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    #4 MartinM, Mar 3, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
    Posting pics of both clocks ("JUF_A" and "JUF_B")

    On the first one, The base is as Eric surmised. (Though it seems to be a deeper groove.).
    JUF_A_BASE.JPG
    Both clocks have the thinner pediment plate.
    JUF_B_PEDIMENT.JPG


    Just trying to get the correct date for the first one as it's not exactly represented in the guide.
    JUF_A_PEND1.JPG JUF_A_PEND2.JPG JUF_A_BACK.JPG


    On the 2nd (B) clock, I'd appreciate any info on what would be appropriate pieces where they are wrong.
    The Pendulum and base, for sure.
    I already replaced the wrong columns and capitals with what I believe are the correct ones.
    JUF_B_FRONT.JPG JUF_B_BACK.JPG
    Note the treatment somebody gave to the levelers in the later base. I'd like to put it down; but, cant, as it works so damn well.
    JUF_B_BASE.JPG

    Speaking of wholly inappropriate things to do with these, I also included a couple pics of the Badische Lunar I couldn't find a pendulum for. As it keeps time to a minute in 2 weeks, I guess it's not any worse than the one that came with the clock, originally.
    BU_LUNAR_FRONT.JPG
    Some day, I'm going to get around to replacing the temporary timing adjuster with a pair of blocks ground to a triangle shape.
    BU_LUNAR_SUSP_ADJ.JPG
     
  5. Shayne

    Shayne Registered User

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  6. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User
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    Thanks, Shayne. I didn't make the connection. It's like when you never notice a certain type of car till you own one.

    Looks like the base I need is sorted.

    Is the #39 pendulum the only 4-ball model that is correct for this clock?
    If it is, I'll have to supplement with a spare KoMa #45 for now.
     
  7. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Martin and Eric, thanks for posting the photos. Also Shayne thanks for the link to your clock.

    Martin, your first clock appears to be all original including the different base from "normal". As Eric mentions, this base design first appears in the 1920's as best I can determine and continued to be used through the 1930's. After WWII it seems JUF used only their "original" design, adding leveling feet in the early 1950's.

    The JUF 4-ball pendulum No. 39 was the "standard" 4-Ball used by JUF from 1911 through 1939 and into the early post-WWII period. They introduced other designs including No. 94, 95, and 96 from 1950. They also used a 3-Ball version of No. 39 from its introduction in 1913 at least to the late 1920's, and the "inverted" 4-Ball No. 27 from its introduction in 1924 on out into the 1930's.

    Your second clock was made between second half 1923 and first quarter 1927, based on the presence of the circular JUF logo and the double elephant logo on the plate. This clock could have had pendulum No. 39 either 3-Ball or 4-Ball, or more likely pendulum No. 27. The base is not correct as you have already concluded, otherwise the clock appears to be original.
     
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