Daniel De St Lue & John Terrill Pain

Allan C. Purcell

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I purchased a watch this week, which as not arrived yet and will say more about it when it arrives.

On the dial is written "De St Lue, London. On the top plate " Dan. De St Lue servant to her majesty the Queen"
The Queen, being the wife of George III. (The one with the Mudge Lever Watch) All that is straight forward, though I asked myself is the date on the inner silver case genuine. To me hallmarked London with the letter "C"
for maybe 1778 or 1798 both looking very much the same and both with the crowned leopards head. Then came, the case makers mark ITP no cartouche. So I looked in my old book by Priestley and no ITP. It dawned on me to look in the new book and there it was, though it says Missing Reg, and it was found on a watch case HM 1768 and I believe he found another for 1775. Addresses given are 67 Shoe Lane, London and on 16th. Oct. 1776 he was at 7 Dean Street, Fetter Lane, London. So for me, that would rule out the later date in Bradbury of 1798, though, would still not be clear for 1778.

View attachment 573705

I then turned to Loomes,
De St Lue, Daniel.London 1753-97. Succeeded by Rivers & Son, qv, Watchmaker to the Queen in 1765.

So does that mean from 1765 onwards, Rivers & Son were signing their watches De St Lue. I would say yes. More on this watch Later.

Allan

View attachment 573704
 
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musicguy

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Fixed it


Rob
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Rivers & Son
London 1783
Spindeltaschenuhr
18 Kt. Goldgehäuse, aufwendiges, sehr plastisches 18 Kt. Übergehäuse mit hinterlegten Durchbrucharbeiten,
Emailzifferblatt,
Vollplatinenwerk mit Spindelhemmung, Kette und Schnecke,
Gehäuse mit Hallmark für 1783,
Lt. Baillie- Loomes, Watchmakers & Clockmakers of the World waren Rivers & Son Nachfolger von Daniel De Saint Leu.
Außergewöhnlich gut erhaltene und qualitätvolle Uhr.





Rivers & Son
London 1783
verge watch
18ct gold-case, ornated, very plastic 18-carate-outer-case with deposited sunburst works
enemal dial
full-plated movement with verge escapement and with chain and volute
case with Hallmark of 1783
Lt. Baillie-Lommes, Watchmakers & Clockmakers of the World were Rivers & Son successor of Daniel de Saint Leu.
Exceptional well preserved and full-quality watch.


fo-13.jpg It would appear not, so where are we now. mmmmmmmmmm

fo-14.jpg HM 1783. The year after they took over the firm.

Anyone know when De St Lue died?

Allan
 
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John Matthews

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De St Lue, Daniel.London 1753-97. Succeeded by Rivers & Son, qv, Watchmaker to the Queen in 1765.
Allan - 'Watchmaker to the Queen in 1765' refers to Daniel De St Lue. David Rivers and Son dates are Cornhill 1782-1818. I noted this watch for the hallmark - I believe it to be 1778/79 and the maker John Terrill Pain operating from 7 Dean Street, Fetter Lane by 1776.

John
 

Allan C. Purcell

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I have now taken a look at "Britten's old clocks and watch and their makers" I now think De St Lue died c1789, First though a look at what Britten has to say.

De St Lue, Daniel.1753-1797, Golden Head, Clock Lane, London 1753; same Ho (home) 17, Clock Lane, and afterwards to 38 Cornhill (Bri) Cloak Lane, Collage Hill 1763-93 (dir), a good maker, & watchmaker to Geo.III /acc 1760), & to the Queen, 1765-8. The rest goes on about watches he made but not when so not relevant yet.

He also has some very good information on the Rivers & Co. in which he says the date of succession to the De St Lue name was 1790-1812.

Still looking......

Allan
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Watchmaker to the Queen in 1765'
Thanks, John, though that is all clear, we were writing at the same time, What I was chasing is the mistake by Loomes, it gave the impression De St Lue died in 1753. The above makes it clear now. Though it would be nice to know for sure when De St Lue died, and if he left a will. I am now looking at William De St Lue, maybe a brother who worked along with the Rivers Co.till c1818.This William was CC master 1796.

Thanks,

Allan
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Read the information in Britten wrong, there was a watchmaker named William De St Lue at the same address as Daniel. Thought it was William Rivers that became master of the Clockmakers Company in 1794. (See Britten on the Rivers & Son Co.)
Allan.
 

Allan C. Purcell

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The watch arrived today, thought you would like a look. It is everything the seller said and more, I am very pleased with it. While waiting for the watch to arrive I started a file of Daniel De St Lue watches, and I will post it later. There are some problems, in so far that many of his cases were in gilt pair-cases. There are other problems but I hope to sort them out with further numbers and help from members.

Allan.

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Allan C. Purcell

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I have done nothing yet, in regards to dating any of the watches, this is slow work with only the few watches that have survived so far.
Still looking...below an update.

[pdf]574766[/pdf]
 

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