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D & A Regulator clock?

flatlander10

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Mar 8, 2011
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Hello,
I have a question about a clock that I've had for some time now.
It is a wall hung D & A School regulator windup clock.
The only other info I have on it is on the back says Made in Korea and in ink, it is stamped with SA 89 . 8.

I was hoping somebody could tell me something about it and its' manufacturer.

Thanks,
flatlander10
 

harold bain

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Flatlander, there were quite a few Korean clock manufacturers, most dating to after the Korean war (at least I've never run into one older than the 1960's). Usually, but not always they stamped the movement with their name. I'm not sure what D & A is, did you mean R & A?
I wonder if SA might mean it was originally sold in South Africa, or South America?
 

flatlander10

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Mar 8, 2011
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harold bain;542792 said:
Flatlander, there were quite a few Korean clock manufacturers, most dating to after the Korean war (at least I've never run into one older than the 1960's). Usually, but not always they stamped the movement with their name. I'm not sure what D & A is, did you mean R & A?
I wonder if SA might mean it was originally sold in South Africa, or South America?
Thanks for your response Harold,
This particular clock isn't that old. I received it as a gift from my Mother in Law, I am thinking around the 1980's. So being that, I am assuming the clock was new when I received it.
On the dial itself states D & A. That is the only markings on it besides the ones I mentioned earlier.

Thanks,
flatlander10
 

instarclock

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I've seen several D & A wall clocks on Ebay and Shopgoodwill. From the descriptions (always taken with a grain of salt) it appears that the earlier clocks marked D&A were made in Korea, the later ones in China.

HTH -
Rt
 

flatlander10

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Mar 8, 2011
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instarclock;542923 said:
I've seen several D & A wall clocks on Ebay and Shopgoodwill. From the descriptions (always taken with a grain of salt) it appears that the earlier clocks marked D&A were made in Korea, the later ones in China.

HTH -
Rt
This one does have a sticker tag on the back stating Made in Korea.
One other note, other markings I failed to mention is there is R = A
on the pendulum bob.

Any help with info or research on this clock would be highly appreciated.

Thanks again,
flatlander10
 

flatlander10

Registered User
Mar 8, 2011
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harold bain;543412 said:
Any trademarks on the movement?
The clock case itself is put together well. The back is nailed tight.
I wanted to get as much info on this before I crack it open.(pull the back off)

I don't have a visual on the movement yet for reasons stated above.

Thanks,
flatlander10
 

harold bain

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I don't recall ever seeing a Korean clock that needed nails removed to access the movement. On most, you take off the hands, then the dial, and the movement is screwed to the backboard. If yours is not like this, post some pictures.
 

flatlander10

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Mar 8, 2011
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harold bain;543651 said:
I don't recall ever seeing a Korean clock that needed nails removed to access the movement. On most, you take off the hands, then the dial, and the movement is screwed to the backboard. If yours is not like this, post some pictures.
Thanks Harold,
I really wasn't familiar on how to gain access to the movement.
I will look into it. All puns intended.

flatlander10
 

sir_swatch

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May 27, 2009
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Oh, these clocks are interesting, indeed....
Both I and my mother have one of these clocks each.
Both bought through the JCPenny catalog in 1988 and 1991 respectively.
They both have the D & A logo on the dial and identical brass pendulums with an attached brass trinket with two gold leaves, but here is where they differ...
My moms has a Korean 31-day movement and the oak case is unmarked.
Mine has a 45-day (yes, it will run a full 48 1/2 days before stopping) Chinese movement and the case is stamped USA.
After many countless hours trying to internet search the D&A Clock Co. to no avail, I have come to the conclusion that there is no such company. Rather, the clocks are just case, dial, and movement sourced from separate manufacturers and assembled somewhere :rolleyes:
If I recall correctly, I found some information that indicated my clock case (USA) was made by a furniture factory in Georgia, USA.
These are robust clocks and will probably last forever! Enjoy yours.
-> posts merged by system <-
flatlander10;543866 said:
I really wasn't familiar on how to gain access to the movement. I will look into it. All puns intended.
With the glass door open, you will notice three tiny brass screws at the 4, 8, and 12 positions. The door and the clock-face are all one piece.
 

flatlander10

Registered User
Mar 8, 2011
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sir_swatch;544556 said:
Oh, these clocks are interesting, indeed....
Both I and my mother have one of these clocks each.
Both bought through the JCPenny catalog in 1988 and 1991 respectively.
They both have the D & A logo on the dial and identical brass pendulums with an attached brass trinket with two gold leaves, but here is where they differ...
My moms has a Korean 31-day movement and the oak case is unmarked.
Mine has a 45-day (yes, it will run a full 48 1/2 days before stopping) Chinese movement and the case is stamped USA.
After many countless hours trying to internet search the D&A Clock Co. to no avail, I have come to the conclusion that there is no such company. Rather, the clocks are just case, dial, and movement sourced from separate manufacturers and assembled somewhere :rolleyes:
If I recall correctly, I found some information that indicated my clock case (USA) was made by a furniture factory in Georgia, USA.
These are robust clocks and will probably last forever! Enjoy yours.
-> posts merged by system <-


With the glass door open, you will notice three tiny brass screws at the 4, 8, and 12 positions. The door and the clock-face are all one piece.
Thanks,
Now that you mentioned it, I do see the screws. When I'm done working on my Mother in Laws Cuckoo clock, I'll dig in and see if we got any dust bunnies in there.

Here's a short story. My wife works with a gal that purchased a new cuckoo clock while she was in Germany back around 2000. She had brought it home and tried to get it running to no avail. She didn't want to take to a clock shop fearing the the repair bill would cost as much as the clock did. So it sits till yesterday. She heard my wife mention something about cuckoo clocks. And she says she has one and never could get it to run. My wife says pack it up and I'll take a look at it.
Well, I did. And noticed the chains were brand shiny new! It is a well made clock with excellent woodwork. First thing I did was to remove the back cover And had noticed the oil paper is still on the gong! Then further investigation I noticed the clips were still on the bellows.
Well, less than a minute I had it up and running. That was an easy one.
Too bad they're not all slam dunk like that one was.
Enjoy,
flatlander10
 

sir_swatch

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If you are going to work on the 31-day clock, be VERY VERY CAREFUL! The springs in these are strong enough to either:
a. rip off a few of your fingers if you don't have good control of your mainspring let-down tool.
b. explode the clockworks like a grenade and send shrapnel through the room if you DIDN'T KNOW you needed to let down the springs FIRST :eek:
Aside from the springs, these are good beginner clocks to start the clock hobby with. :D
 
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flatlander10

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sir_swatch;544790 said:
If you are going to work on the 31-day clock, be VERY VERY CAREFUL! The springs in these are strong enough to either:
a. rip off a few of your fingers if you don't have good control of your mainspring let-down tool.
b. explode the clockworks like a grenade and send shrapnel through the room if you DIDN'T KNOW you needed to let down the springs FIRST :eek:
Aside from the springs, these are good beginner clocks to start the clock hobby with. :D
Thanks for the warning. Out of common sense, or should I say no sense. I worked on a anniversary clock with no let down tool, so I did it manually with the key.
Needless to say, I WILL pay more attention on what I'm doing.
The skin has healed, and the black and blue thumb nail finely return to its normal color.
Yes, I now gain absolute respect for these springs. I did remember reading about modding a file handle for the purpose. Next time I get into these I will make one up as described in the forum.

flatlander10
 

flatlander10

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Mar 8, 2011
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Well, I finally cleaned and lubed all (about 15 so far. Maybe more in the basement) my Mother-n-Laws Cuckoo clocks and they are all up and running. I made a huge brownie point. Now I have the time to crack my D & A Korean 31 day clock open.

The movement has a stamping on it and says "Made by Sam Sung" and "No Jewels".

Other than that, there is no other markings on the case and movement previously mentioned in the earlier post.

The movement does seem to be well made with bushings on both plates.
The pivots are lubed with a light in density, dark color grease. Which is still visible.

The case must be pretty well sealed cause there are no dust bunnies to be found.
I was going to add some clock oil to the pivots but I thought I remembered reading somewhere here in a different post that mixing the two is not a good idea. So at this time I will leave well enough alone and wait for a fault in the next 30 years. I believe this clock will outlast me.

Flatlander10
 

lmester

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Flatlander10,


I probably got a similar D & A clock earlier this week. Does it look like your clock? Regulator style with time and strike. See attached pics. My wife got it at the city rescue mission store. She really liked the wood case. When I flipped it over and saw "made in china" on the back I got a little worried. It was sold as working so I hung it on the wall and put it in beat. It had very little overswing when fully wound. I was worried about that and was right. It ran for four days and then stopped. Now it's time for disassembly and inspection. Hopefully it just needs cleaning and oiling. I don't see any crud around the bushings so it might just need cleaned.

I'm assuming that this is a 30 day movement? The spring had only wound down about one turn. I'll know when I get it apart. Looks a little different than ones I've seen before. The springs are not open they are in barrels.

From what I've read on this thread I have a Chinese copy of a Korean clock. The case IS nice looking and well built but this isn't looking good for the quality of the movement. I have a Chinese copy of a Korean copy of a regulator:( 93869.jpg 93870.jpg 93871.jpg 93872.jpg
 

flatlander10

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Mar 8, 2011
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lmester;560122 said:
Flatlander10,


I probably got a similar D & A clock earlier this week. Does it look like your clock? Regulator style with time and strike. See attached pics. My wife got it at the city rescue mission store. She really liked the wood case. When I flipped it over and saw "made in china" on the back I got a little worried. It was sold as working so I hung it on the wall and put it in beat. It had very little overswing when fully wound. I was worried about that and was right. It ran for four days and then stopped. Now it's time for disassembly and inspection. Hopefully it just needs cleaning and oiling. I don't see any crud around the bushings so it might just need cleaned.

I'm assuming that this is a 30 day movement? The spring had only wound down about one turn. I'll know when I get it apart. Looks a little different than ones I've seen before. The springs are not open they are in barrels.

From what I've read on this thread I have a Chinese copy of a Korean clock. The case IS nice looking and well built but this isn't looking good for the quality of the movement. I have a Chinese copy of a Korean copy of a regulator:(
It is somewhat similar, but mine has a slightly different case.
It is the Regulator style case.
My movement doesn't have the mainspring barrels, it is of the open type with a loop on the outer end on both. The gong is a heavy gauge wire spiral similar to the Cuckoo but only much heavier gauge. It is also a 30 day movement with a strong pendulum swing

I will post some pictures in a few days to give you a better idea of what I have here.

Flatlander10
 

lmester

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I cleaned it this weekend. If you have one of these D & A clocks with the Chinese movement pay attention to the mainsprings. The movement was in like new condition and did have some oil in the oil sinks. The springs had almost no lubrication! A very small amount of thin oil. They were popping and jumping when I let them down. After cleaning and lubricating it's running good. Springs now wind smoothly & quietly.

Also an interesting thing. Instead of a fly with just a fan blade it has a small flyweight governor. That's going to put thrust on the bushings. As it expands a collar (the white plastic part) is pushed against one plate and the arbor against the other plate. I'd say that's probably not the best design for long life. 94258.jpg 94259.jpg 94260.jpg
 

harold bain

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It's a Korean clock, much better quality than the Chinese are putting out. The spring advice definately applies here.
 

Cheezhead

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I want to add my D & A clock to this thread with a few additional comments and some alternate views. Despite some reservations by others, it appears to me that the movement and case of this D & A clock are very well made with a least a couple of quality features in the movement that I can see that are found on few other mechanical clocks. I did not know what I was buying except that it was a wooden wall clock. It was found at an outdoor flea market; the price was right and the clock turned out to run ok but the movement has been treated to a little fresh oil.

The movement appear to be identical to Imester's as per his photo; also has the mainsprings' protective enclosure drums except mine are blued in color. The chime governor is a centrifugal type design; another quality feature more costly and quieter than a simple fan type speed limiter. The face is made of brass as verified with a magnet and the dial enameling and numbering are very nicely done. The white paint on the dial is the whitest I have seen and the black Roman numeral lettering is sharp. The D & A logo on the face is clearly readable. The clock ran a little over 31 days with one winding. The wooden case is about 30" tall by 11-1/2" wide and has that reddish mahogany color that is commonly seen on oriental woodwork that at first I didn't like but now, after becoming accustomed to it, appears pleasant to see.

Although I took a close look, I don't know enough about wood carving to know if the wooden filligree over the front window glass is done by hand or with machinery. The duplicate and mirror image carving features do not match each other exactly but this could have possibly been done with tooling as well. If someone can comment on what to look for to determine if the filigree carving was done manually or with machinery, please do so. I compared it to the carvings on an old German cuckoo clock but just can't decide.

Found on the front of the movement: WEIHAI P S, MADE IN CHINA, NO JEWEL.

Ink stamped in black on the back of the case near the bottom: MOVEMENT MADE IN CHINA, ASSEMBLED IN CHINA, CASE MADE IN CHINA, 200007 WPS.

Apparently Weihai Paisi is still making clocks but they have quartz movements; it seems that their mechanical clocks are history.

116292.jpg
 
Last edited:

flatlander10

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Mar 8, 2011
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Hi all,
Update on my D & A clock. I'm starting to run out of my Mother-n-Law's cuckoo clocks, guess I'll have time for mine.
The D & A clock is finally getting sleepy after about 30 or so years and showing a need for some TLC.
I'm assuming the springs are in need of cleaning and lube, cause it's lacking power and will not run anymore than a
couple of days with a fresh wind. So while I will have the movement out, it also will get special treatment.

Flatlander
 

yayoo

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Jul 13, 2012
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I just found a clock at a garage sale. I know it is from JC Penney's and I don't think it is an antique. I just want information about how to wind it. we just put it up on the wall, and it rang on the hour, but the wrong number of chimes. I just want to know how often to wind, and how much, and how to correct the number of chimes. I only changed the time by moving the minute hand forward. I would love to have instructions. The code on the back of the clock was D7716202 or 9401 WPS. Thanks!


sir_swatch;544556 said:
Oh, these clocks are interesting, indeed....
Both I and my mother have one of these clocks each.
Both bought through the JCPenny catalog in 1988 and 1991 respectively.
They both have the D & A logo on the dial and identical brass pendulums with an attached brass trinket with two gold leaves, but here is where they differ...
My moms has a Korean 31-day movement and the oak case is unmarked.
Mine has a 45-day (yes, it will run a full 48 1/2 days before stopping) Chinese movement and the case is stamped USA.
After many countless hours trying to internet search the D&A Clock Co. to no avail, I have come to the conclusion that there is no such company. Rather, the clocks are just case, dial, and movement sourced from separate manufacturers and assembled somewhere :rolleyes:
If I recall correctly, I found some information that indicated my clock case (USA) was made by a furniture factory in Georgia, USA.
These are robust clocks and will probably last forever! Enjoy yours.
-> posts merged by system <-


With the glass door open, you will notice three tiny brass screws at the 4, 8, and 12 positions. The door and the clock-face are all one piece.
 

Scottie-TX

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Well first YA, WELCOME!
Now. We may need to know a little more about your clock to fully counsel.
From what you've written I can tell you two things.
1. Wind it until further winding is difficult or not possible. You cannot overwind a clock. That is a myth and incorrect so wind fully.
2. If your clock has two winding holes it does not chime. Chiming clocks have three holes to wind and play a melody on the quarters.
So if your clock has two winding holes, it STRIKES.
There are two different striking systems - countwheel and rack/snail. We don't know which yours has but probably striking the correct hour can be corrected by moving the hour hand to the hour last struck. It is friction fit and usually moves easily. Since it is friction fit to a tapered cannon, you may wanna press it lightly inward after moving to reseat it.
Some clocks are wound weekly, some every two weeks, and some once monthly. It is safe to fully wound all of them weekly.
 

yayoo

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Thanks for the info. It is a two key clock and is striking fine (must have gotten situated over night). It also strikes once on the half hour.
 

yayoo

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The strike actually sounds like a "thunk". I read another thread that said something was still wrapped in the works. Should it sound like that? I tried to open the face, it has 6 small screws, and the minute hand came off easily, but the hour hand doesn't. It doesn't look like it has another nut over it, but I don't want to break it. If the sound is correct, I won't open it. It's working fine.
 

soaringjoy

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yayoo, the hour hand is (usually) a friction and should come off
by twisting and gently pulling away from the dial.
We do need pictures to determine what you have, though, otherwise we
can't give you ample advice.
No, the strike shouldn't sound like a "thunk".
 

yayoo

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Jul 13, 2012
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soaringjoy;683939 said:
yayoo, the hour hand is (usually) a friction and should come off
by twisting and gently pulling away from the dial.
We do need pictures to determine what you have, though, otherwise we
can't give you ample advice.
No, the strike shouldn't sound like a "thunk".
134627.jpg
Here's my picture. It seems to have some tone to it, but really sounds bland.
 

lmester

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Yayoo, You can change the sound of the strike by adjusting the distance between the hammer and the coil or rod. Too close and you'll get a thunk or clatter. Also, my clock had a very harsh metallic sound to the strike. It had a hard plastic head on the hammer. I replaced it with a soft rubber head. It sounds better now.

Clocks are definitely not equal when it comes to the sound of the strike or chime. My Chinese D & A clock has the poorest sound of the clocks in my collection. It's also the cheapest priced clock. There just might be a connection there:)
 

Kerovick

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Feb 19, 2013
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Cheezhead;621189 said:
I want to add my D & A clock to this thread with a few additional comments and some alternate views. Despite some reservations by others, it appears to me that the movement and case of this D & A clock are very well made with a least a couple of quality features in the movement that I can see that are found on few other mechanical clocks. I did not know what I was buying except that it was a wooden wall clock. It was found at an outdoor flea market; the price was right and the clock turned out to run ok but the movement has been treated to a little fresh oil.

The movement appear to be identical to Imester's as per his photo; also has the mainsprings' protective enclosure drums except mine are blued in color. The chime governor is a centrifugal type design; another quality feature more costly and quieter than a simple fan type speed limiter. The face is made of brass as verified with a magnet and the dial enameling and numbering are very nicely done. The white paint on the dial is the whitest I have seen and the black Roman numeral lettering is sharp. The D & A logo on the face is clearly readable. The clock ran a little over 31 days with one winding. The wooden case is about 30" tall by 11-1/2" wide and has that reddish mahogany color that is commonly seen on oriental woodwork that at first I didn't like but now, after becoming accustomed to it, appears pleasant to see.

Although I took a close look, I don't know enough about wood carving to know if the wooden filligree over the front window glass is done by hand or with machinery. The duplicate and mirror image carving features do not match each other exactly but this could have possibly been done with tooling as well. If someone can comment on what to look for to determine if the filigree carving was done manually or with machinery, please do so. I compared it to the carvings on an old German cuckoo clock but just can't decide.

Found on the front of the movement: WEIHAI P S, MADE IN CHINA, NO JEWEL.

Ink stamped in black on the back of the case near the bottom: MOVEMENT MADE IN CHINA, ASSEMBLED IN CHINA, CASE MADE IN CHINA, 200007 WPS.

Apparently Weihai Paisi is still making clocks but they have quartz movements; it seems that their mechanical clocks are history.

116292.jpg
This appears to be the exact clock I have. It was given to me as a wedding present 12 years ago and has stopped working. It was stopped, I wound it and started the weight... It seemed like it was fine but the next day it was not moving again but still wound. I started the weight again and it stopped with in a min. I know this isn't a quality clock or anything but I am fond of it. When I actually find someone local that can repair this what should I tell them? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Shannan
 

Bill Stuntz

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Welcome to the board, Shannan. If you edit your profile to give us some indication where "local" is, we might be able to help a bit more. It probably needs to be cleaned & oiled if it hasn't been serviced in 12 year.
 

Cheezhead

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I will post another feature of my D&A, Weihai Paisi Chinese clock that I had not seen before. It has a slip clutch between the pallet and the pendulum rod that permits an adjustable beat to make it symmetrical when the clock case length is perfectly plumb as determined by a spirit level. To accomplish this, the pendulum must be lifted off of the pendulum rod so the pendulum rod can then be pushed extremely left or right until the beat is symmetrical. It's very touchy and not at all easy to get it right. Possibly it could be done in an easier way if the dial was removed to reveal the parts but I did not do that.

Mr. Kerovick, it's not always easy to diagnose a problem from a distance; Mr. Stuntz has it covered.

I can't agree that the quality of the movement is less than others. Instead, it's a movement with impressively high quality in my opinion after handling the works of a fair number of other pendulum clocks including a German cuckoo movement, several US strike type mantle clocks, and an old US school clock. The enclosed mainsprings, the centrifugal governor and the adjustable beat features cost money and are either little used or not used by others.
 
Last edited:

Kerovick

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Bill Stuntz;752679 said:
Welcome to the board, Shannan. If you edit your profile to give us some indication where "local" is, we might be able to help a bit more. It probably needs to be cleaned & oiled if it hasn't been serviced in 12 year.
Thanks! I am in Fairfield PA and work in Frederick MD.
 

Jmarie1568

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Hi So I found this thread trying to search info on my clock that used to be my grandmother’s... as far as I know it is semi old it actually matches the clock flatlander10 has in the photos.. my issue is I lost the winding key and don’t know who to replace it cause I am unsure of the size can someone help me?
 

JTD

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my issue is I lost the winding key and don’t know who to replace it cause I am unsure of the size can someone help me?
Welcome to the board.

Getting a new key is no problem. Measure the winding arbor across the flats and then you can order a key of the appropriate size from Timesavers or any of the usual clock parts suppliers.

Alternatively, most clock repairers have a box of keys. Take your clock there and they will likely have one that fits.

JTD
 
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georgia814

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Welcome to the board.

Getting a new key is no problem. Measure the winding arbor across the flats and then you can order a key of the appropriate size from Timesavers or any of the usual clock parts suppliers.

Alternatively, most clock repairers have a box of keys. Take your clock there and they will likely have one that fits.

JTD
JTD, did you ever find the key size? I am also missing my key.
 

JTD

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JTD, did you ever find the key size? I am also missing my key.
Welcome to the board.

I was not looking for a key, I simply made a suggestion to jmarie1568 who said she had lost hers. I would give you the same advice (see post #37) above.

JTD
 

georgia814

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Welcome to the board.

I was not looking for a key, I simply made a suggestion to jmarie1568 who said she had lost hers. I would give you the same advice (see post #37) above.

JTD
JTD, I apologize for the inconvenience. I'm new to the forum, and I meant to respond to jmarie. There is not a clock repair shop near me, so I was going to purchase a key online if jmarie responds with the size key they bought.
 

georgia814

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Hi So I found this thread trying to search info on my clock that used to be my grandmother’s... as far as I know it is semi old it actually matches the clock flatlander10 has in the photos.. my issue is I lost the winding key and don’t know who to replace it cause I am unsure of the size can someone help me?
JMarie,

I have the same clock. Did you ever find a key? If so, what size is it? There is not a clock repair shop near me, so I was hoping to buy the key online. Thanks in advance.
 

ta855

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JMarie,

I have the same clock. Did you ever find a key? If so, what size is it? There is not a clock repair shop near me, so I was hoping to buy the key online. Thanks in advance.
Hello georgia814,

Clock keys have a number system that starts at size 0 and goes to size 16. Usually for Korean/Chinese clocks it is key size #7
 

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I had one given to me. It runs true. However I researched it as DEA and came up with information. This is the one I have.

vintage-dea-pendulum-chime-wall-clock_1_81dbe3f76cd485f0880b77d0075e235e.jpg
 

wingtips515

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Dec 9, 2020
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I also have a D&A clock that was my in-laws. Recently it has started to strike 12 times at 9, 10, 11 and 12. I have yet to open it up to investigate the mechanism. I wind it once per week so I don't even know if it is an 8 day, 30 day or more.
Someone mentioned there are two different strike counting mechanisms. I understand the type that has a lever that touches the snail. Can someone post a picture of the other type so I know what I am looking at before I open the case?
Regards,
wings515
 

wingtips515

Registered User
Dec 9, 2020
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82
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Got to look at this D&A clock. Fairly simple to remove three wood screws and loosen a forth to remove the face. Upon inspection it appears the rack has a pin that rests on the snail for the count down. At the 9 thru12 location, the pin dropped behind the snail and thus allowed the chiming to run for 12 times. A small bend in the rack, it is thin brass, and I was able to position the rack such that it stayed in the correct position throughout the 12 hour rotation.
I wish all repairs are this easy.

Regards,
wings515
 

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