Cutter Shank/Arbors

wow

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I acquired a set of cutters and the arbors I have for them are not ideal. The cutters have 1/2 inch bores. My arbors are too small. Is there a source for arbors that are turned for 1/2 inch cutters? I do not find them on Sherline’s website.

0C9F33B8-2823-4EA8-B844-8B7911721977.jpeg EA3B142D-17A3-4DD7-BECC-717CB8BD12F3.jpeg
 

wow

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Thanks, Jim. I thought about making one. I would like to know a source for buying them also. I bought some 12L14 steel bars that seem to work well. I’m cutting an arbor/ pinion with a bar of it and it turns well. Would that be a good steel to use for a cutter arbor?
 

Jim DuBois

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Virtually all the steel seen in my mishmash of stuff is 12L14. I only use tool steel for cutting tools, or very seldom, I use it to make parts that are highly stressed in a clock or tool. 12L14 is a dream to machine IMO and can be case-hardened when necessary. And arbors can be left dead soft as machined. As you can see, I tend to treat them as expendable and create them in a particular form when necessary for non-conventional parts. Like racks, for example.
 

wow

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Virtually all the steel seen in my mishmash of stuff is 12L14. I only use tool steel for cutting tools, or very seldom, I use it to make parts that are highly stressed in a clock or tool. 12L14 is a dream to machine IMO and can be case-hardened when necessary. And arbors can be left dead soft as machined. As you can see, I tend to treat them as expendable and create them in a particular form when necessary for non-conventional parts. Like racks, for example.
Thanks, again, Jim. I have some aluminum bars. Do you ever use aluminum for arbors etc? Is it to soft or too difficult to work with?
 

Jim DuBois

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Thanks, again, Jim. I have some aluminum bars. Do you ever use aluminum for arbors etc? Is it to soft or too difficult to work with?
As you can see on the arbors shown above I use aluminum for backing plates and the like. I prefer steel for arbors themselves as I like to keep ridigity high to minimize vibration and keep cuts as smooth as possible. While it might not be evident, I tend to support arbors at both ends using a tailstock on the arbor that has the part being cut.

PA090030.JPG
 

wow

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As you can see on the arbors shown above I use aluminum for backing plates and the like. I prefer steel for arbors themselves as I like to keep ridigity high to minimize vibration and keep cuts as smooth as possible. While it might not be evident, I tend to support arbors at both ends using a tailstock on the arbor that has the part being cut.

View attachment 733054
Thanks, Jim.
 

wefalck

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Like Jim, I tend to make all my own arbors. However, my milling machine takes WW-collets, so I hunted for appropriate blanks to save me the work of having to machine the collet-shank myself, which is possible but tedious on a WW-lathe.

At some stage I (accidentally) acquired a set of arbors from someone that were made on a CNC-machine from a tougher kind of aluminium (I don't know which one) and they seem to work well for short arbors. For longer arbors, I would go for steel, as this is likely to be stiffer.

Ideally, an arbor should be machined at the business end on the machine in which it is going to be used to ensure concentricity. This is probably less of an issue for collet-type shanks.
 

Jim DuBois

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My mill head uses R-8 collets and arbors, which opens up a lot of options. The colleting on my rotary head uses ER collets. As do several of my adapters used to hold milling cutters. By the way, never hold a milling cutter in the Jacobs 3 jaw drilling chuck.

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wefalck

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Of course not o_O ... Jacobs chucks are not made for side-thrust.

I made for my 6 mm end-mills a solid WW-type holder that is a tight slip-fit and has three set-screws to not throw the end-mill out of line (hopefully) - but this is actually another topic.
 

Jim DuBois

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It was suggested by an off line comment to me that my machine is too big to do small work. Maybe so, but I did make an 8-leaf pinion at just over .050" a while back. I would rather make tower clock parts. Oh, I did make a crown wheel for a Japanese stick clock at .375" and 13 teeth. And a watch or miniature carriage clock wheel at about .400" and 64 teeth. I also did a tower clock wheel at 7" recently. can do up to 11" or so if need be. And I really do like larger. The tiny stuff (for me) takes more time than larger stuff.
 

wefalck

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Actually, the factory machines are big. More mass makes for less vibration. However, moving more mass in the slides could make for less feel of what is going on.
 

wow

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Ok. So here’s what I am doing now. I have 7 cutters that are in great shape and seem to be of good quality. I made a collet/washer that fits tightly in each cutter and allows me to use the arbor on the left and have very little movement of the cutter. It works but is not perfect. I plan to make and/or buy an arbor that fits the cutters tightly and can be held by my three or four jaw chuck in my Sherline mill. The other arbor on the right has a Morse taper but the diameter is too small for the cutters. Any ideas?

D513601B-2CD0-4F19-A78F-8AD8D2497CB5.jpeg
 

Jim DuBois

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you might try something like this if you plan to hold it in a chuck. It is stepped so you can use several different sized cutters (internal) 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1″ Cutter Hole Diam https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/08271058 I use a couple of those for both saw blades as well as wheel cutting tooling, mostly of the larger sizes like you show.
 

wow

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you might try something like this if you plan to hold it in a chuck. It is stepped so you can use several different sized cutters (internal) 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1″ Cutter Hole Diam https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/08271058 I use a couple of those for both saw blades as well as wheel cutting tooling, mostly of the larger sizes like you show.
Jim, that looks like what I need. Do you know the diameter of the largest part. It needs to be 25 mm or less for these cutters.

0320B24C-46CA-4393-8C31-534E037C0ECA.jpeg
 

Jim DuBois

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Hmm, your cutters are a lot smaller than mine. The outside diameter of my arbor is 32mm
 

Jim DuBois

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WOW,
Can you tell me a bit about your cutters? Metric Module or involute? Sizes? Thanks, jus a bit interested in what you have.
 

wow

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WOW,
Can you tell me a bit about your cutters? Metric Module or involute? Sizes? Thanks, jus a bit interested in what you have.
Jim, I am not sure what I have. I bought them from Ukraine before the war started. They were sold as topping milling wheels. I do not know what the info on each wheel means. They are all different cutting depths. A friend told me they are pinion cutting wheels. Please zoom my photos and tell me what you think. The one on the right in post#1 may help with details. I am cutting a pinion with one now using 12L14 steel.
 

wefalck

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It says M0,3 N5 P18. So it is probably No. 5 out of a metric set of eight with the Modul 0.3. Not sure what P18 stands for. This mills are arranged in sets of eight for a range of teeth from 10 or so to 132 or so. Different mills for different numbers of teeth are needed as their geometry slightly changes as number of teeth increases. They have a pressure angle of 20°.

Their tooth geometry is different for these kind of wheel from that normally used in watchmaking.
 

wow

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It says M0,3 N5 P18. So it is probably No. 5 out of a metric set of eight with the Modul 0.3. Not sure what P18 stands for. This mills are arranged in sets of eight for a range of teeth from 10 or so to 132 or so. Different mills for different numbers of teeth are needed as their geometry slightly changes as number of teeth increases. They have a pressure angle of 20°.

Their tooth geometry is different for these kind of wheel from that normally used in watchmaking.
Thanks for the info. So I have # 1,3,4,5,6,7,&8. Missing #2. Would like to know what the P18 means.
 

L. Vanice

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P18 is a Russian designation for a type of high speed tool steel, called T1 in the USA. In Russian, the letter P is equivalent to the Roman letter R, so the steel is sometimes called R18 outside of Russia.

Stiffness as a material property is described numerically with its modulus of elasticity, or Young's modulus. For steel, the number is about 30 and for aluminum the number is about 10. That means, for equal size parts, a steel part is three times stiffer than an aluminum part. The number varies a little bit with different alloys, but 10 and 30 are close enough to average to make the point that parts subject to bending like milling arbors are better made with steel.

Larry
 
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wow

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P18 is a Russian designation for a type of high speed tool steel, called T1 in the USA. In Russian, the letter P is equivalent to the Roman letter R, so the steel is sometimes called R18 outside of Russia.

Stiffness as a material property is described numerically with its modulus of elasticity, or Young's modulus. For steel, the number is about 30 and for aluminum the number is about 10. That means, for equal size parts, a steel part is three times stiffer than an aluminum part. The number varies a little bit with different alloys, but 10 and 30 are close enough to average to make the point that parts subject to bending like milling arbors are better made with steel.

Larry
Thank you, Larry.
So, I am learning the basics. I have several HSS cutters etc. How do they compare to the P-18?
Also, here’s a cut-off I use often. How does it compare?

71F22D7D-647D-467F-BDDE-681B41DB62B6.jpeg
 
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