Curious Riley Whiting Label

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by George Nelson, Sep 7, 2012.

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  1. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
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    Hi, Everyone!

    One of the clocks in my collection is this Riley Whiting column and splat (lower tablet is replacement). It has a curious label, one which I have never seen before. While most of the Whiting labels have his name and the wording in large, bold print, this example is quite different. The printing is small, and the label had been altered before its application to the clock backboard. There are two cutouts on the label, both of which are notated in the photo. (On most browsers, after clicking on picture to enlarge, you can click one more time to enlarge to maximum.) The Whiting name is off-center due to one of the cutouts, while the other area is below his name. The label was printed by P. Canfield Printers, Hartford, so the clock dates to the mid-to-late 1830's. Has anyone seen this label before? Any guesses as to what wording has been removed? Thanks to all for any help with this!

    Kind regards,

    George Nelson
     

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  2. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
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    George,

    That is definitely a curious label. Although I don't really offer this as a likely possibility, the only thing I can think of that would fit is "MOVEMENT MADE BY RILEY WHITING." Can't say I've ever seen that, though. Following on that theme, the other missing part could be "CASED BY..." OR "SOLD BY..." I hope someone else has actually seen an unaltered version, because I'm intrigued. Can you post an image of the movement? Is it, in fact, a Whiting?

    Mike
     
  3. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
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    Hi, Mike and Everyone!

    Mike, thanks for your thoughts.

    I haven't known what to make of this clock since I bought it 30 years ago. The label, size wise at least, seems to me that it would be more at home in a pillar and scroll or other short drop case, as all of the printing is down towards the bottom. The overall label size is much smaller than those in my other Column & Splat wood works clocks.

    I'm embarrassed to say that I never researched the movement, as I assumed it to be original. I made this assumption due to the facts that there are no extra mounting holes, it is a perfect fit, and that the back of the dial exhibits a strong "shadow" or darkened area(s) corresponding to the installed movement. The shadow of the countwheel and the wooden bridge for the escape wheel are clearly visible, along with the outline of the edges of the movement plate. (I tried to photograph the shadows to no avail. Haunted, perhaps? :eek:)

    I've included a picture of the movement, and hopefully better close-ups of the two cutout areas on the label. The cutouts seem to be hastily done, and I believe that the entire label has been glued over either another label or a blank sheet (more likely, I believe) as you can clearly see the other paper through the cutouts. I examined them with a jeweler's loupe, and the label was definitely cut before application to the clock, as there are no corresponding cuts to the liner.

    Mike and everyone, I appreciate your interest in my questions and look forward to everyone's thoughts!

    Peace to all,

    George
     

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  4. Jerome collector

    Jerome collector Registered User
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    George,

    Now we're getting somewhere. The movement is a type 1.72 by Riley Whiting. What's exciting, though, is that the book, Good for a Time, by Chris Brown (edited by Russ Oechsle), has a Riley Whiting clock with a label showing the same cut-out features as yours. The clock itself is full-size (like yours) and has carved half-columns and a mushroom splat. There are a number of other Riley Whiting clocks in the book but none with the same label layout. So, still no clues to the missing parts of the label. But at least you have company.

    Mike
     
  5. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
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    Hi, Mike abd Everyone

    Wow-thanks so much for the additional information. It is good to know that there is at least one other clock with a similar label out there. Mike, I do appreciate the time you have spent on my behalf-I'll have to get a copy of the book! Am I correct in assuming at this point that the clock would be a early production using up label stock intended for other style clocks that had lost favor with the buying public?

    Thanks so much again,

    George Nelson
     
  6. albresee

    albresee Registered User
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    I have a R. Whiting clock of medium size pillar and splat with carved eagle splat, carved half columns ,and paw feet. It has the same label with the same cut-outs.
     
  7. George Nelson

    George Nelson Registered User
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    Interesting, Albresee! It seems that there were at least several
    Whiting clocks with this most curious label. Over the years since my first posting,
    I've come across at least two other examples. Still no clue as to what
    the missing wording was/is. Perhaps in time someone will offer an un-altered
    example of the label. The search continues! Thanks for letting us know about
    your Whiting clock to add to the "collection". Can you post us a picture or two?

    Thanks,

    George Nelson
     
  8. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    here is the thought to be subsequent label to the one George pictures......I have not found any labels with the missing information as we see in some of the other clocks...

    20171020_083119.jpg
     
  9. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Here is one that I found .....Perhaps someone can piece the missing pieces together.

    Whiting Label Junk.jpg Whiting junk label 5 great.jpg

    I also have one; however, have to dig it out to take photos.
     
  10. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Dick C. so it looks like the first removed word is "movement" (by Riley Whiting) and the other removed lines start with "sold by" So now it looks like we need to figure out the sold by name....progress! Thanks!
     
  11. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Having that rubber band right in the middle of the areas of interest on the label is, well, not entirely helpful.

    See Oechsle and Boyce, "An Empire in Time: Clocks and Clock Makers of Upstate NY". An essential part of any horological or antiques reference library, IMCO. See pages 146-147.

    William A Whiting acted as an agent for Riley Whiting. He worked from a village in Upstate NY called Black Rock which would later be incorporated into the city of Buffalo, NY. His father was the 1st cousin of Riley.

    A number of labels were apparently used by WAW. The reported wording of one those labels is probably similar to the one you show indicating "movements made by Riley Whiting" and claiming that they were cased and sold by William A. So, the label of your clock is similar to at least 1 example of WAW's label that I can find, though NOT identical.

    Now see Brown and Oechsle, "Good for a Time" (ditto the comments about the above book), page 47. Pictured and described there is another WAW & Co. clock. Note the label there.

    Despite the claims made, it is believed that Riley made and shipped the whole clock.

    So, I suspect that the clock you posted was one of the clocks from Black Rock (Buffalo) NY with a Riley Whiting movement which William A. Whiting claims to have cased and wording to that effect??

    A better look at the wording of the label in your clock would confirm this.

    For completeness sake, I would mention that Nettleton, Heath & Co of Scottsville, NY also had labels stating that they cased Riley Whiting clocks when, contrary to the claims on their labels, they were actually selling the whole kit and caboodle. The example of their labels I can find are actually rather different from the one in the clock which you posted.

    RM
     
  12. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Sorry, not a current photo of mine....it is out of the past...
     
  13. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Guess I should have gone back to the 1st post of George's clock's label for a full view!

    I hadn't really paid attention to that label until you posted yours.

    I believe my hypothesis is correct. It was a label intended for a William A. Riley Black Rock/Buffalo NY clock. Claims on his labels to the contrary, the clocks were probably shipped complete from CT and NOT cased in NYS. I further hypothesize that Riley needed some labelled cases and ones with those labels were what was on hand so they just cut out or overpasted (?) the other parts?

    RM
     
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  14. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Here is the clock and the label that I currently have.....about to go out the door I think so I captured the label.

    The white band on the top is not cut so I expect that there was a piece of tape or something else covering the whiter portion of the label.

    IMG_0486.JPG Riley Whiting Label 2.JPG Riley Whiting Label 3.JPG Riley Whiting Label 4.JPG
     
  15. David 62

    David 62 Registered User
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    The tablet looks old and is done in the proper style,although Whiting often used exceptional tablets in his clocks.
     
  16. Sooth

    Sooth Registered User
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    What I find interesting is that the label in Jim's clock appears to have been made for use in a pillar and scroll case (with the circle meant to contour the bell). Much like in Dick's example.
     
  17. albresee

    albresee Registered User
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    Pix of my label, pillar and scroll type.

    whiting.jpg
     
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