Cuckoo Cuckoo clock Minute hand and hour hand want move while pendulum swings.

[Lost Time]

This is my first time posting so bear with me if I don't know all of the terminology. The Clock has a Regula A72 / 7 PL28.5 movement with music box and dancers. I cleaned without disassembling because the cuckoo and music was sluggish, and the weights needed a slight push down to activate. The cuckoo and hands were working fine after cleaning, but music box and dancers were still sluggish. I cleaned it a second time and all was working except the hands did not keep time. I remove the movement from the case and found an e-clip in the case that had popped loose. It took some time, but I found it belonged on the arbor at the back plate. I was able to reinstall it and reassembled it in the case. Mounted on the wall and still no hand movement. Removed the movement from the case and found that the E-clip was gone and know where to be found. At this time the cannon for the hour hand has some spring action but there are times when it doesn't. I have to play around with the minute hand to make have spring action. Waiting on order of a E-clips to come. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I think it is a Dold clock from 1990 or 2020 clock but not sure.

 

[Jeff T]

get a pic of the front of the movement so we can see more

 

[Mike Mall]

Regula 25, and 34 movements, use a plastic gear on the low end of the time train, that cracks and slips on the arbor.
The plastic gear drives the center / minute arbor, either from the chain gear, or T2.
I don't know if this model movement uses the same set up, can't tell from your photos.
If it does that's probably the problem.

Plastic Drive Wheel For 1-Day Cuckoo Movement

Used on time side ratchet wheels on Regula #25 movements.

timesavers.com

 

[Mike Phelan]

Removed the movement from the case and found that the E-clip was gone and know where to be found. At this time the cannon for the hour hand has some spring action but there are times when it doesn't.

Hi,
So,why didn't you just re-fit, or were the hands still not working as they should?

 

[Lost Time]

Jeff T., Photos as requested. Mike P., Not sure what is meant by refit. Mike M., All parts are steel or brass, no plastic parts. Failed to mention this is an eight-day clock.

 

[Mike Mall]

Mike M., All parts are steel or brass, no plastic parts.

Are you sure?
This gear in your picture is plastic.


Also on an 8 day it would be on the second wheel, between the chain wheel and the center arbor.

 

[Mike Mall]

This is a Regula 34, but it would look like this on the center train of yours.

 

[Jeff T]

the snail is too far out ,lift the rack up slide the snail back so the arm of the rack rides on the edge of snail

 

[Jeff T]

put the minute hand and nut on the keep snail in proper position when testing

 

[Mike Phelan]

Mike P., Not sure what is meant by refit.

You said you knew where you could find the E-clip; I was just suggesting to fit it back on; however subsequent posts have seen other problems.
Removed the movement from the case and found that the E-clip was gone and know where to be found.

 

[Jaap]

Are you sure?
This gear in your picture is plastic.

View attachment 765434
Also on an 8 day it would be on the second wheel, between the chain wheel and the center arbor.

Is that gear upside down?

 

[Lost Time]

Mike M., You are right, the gear you are pointing to is plastic. Tested it with a magnet. No cracks. The gear configuration doesn't look the same on a Regula A72 as it is on a 34. See first post photos. Same view position as your photo. Have E-clips now and will attempt to install. Making a crude tool to install without disassembling movement. Would there be any danger of bending the arbor when pushing the e-clip into the groove?

 

[Mike Mall]

Mike M., You are right, the gear you are pointing to is plastic. Tested it with a magnet. No cracks. The gear configuration doesn't look the same on a Regula A72 as it is on a 34. See first post photos. Same view position as your photo. Have E-clips now and will attempt to install. Making a crude tool to install without disassembling movement. Would there be any danger of bending the arbor when pushing the e-clip into the groove?

The only pic showing the wheels is from the side, where the worm drive is. The music train is in the way. I can't really see the center (time) wheels between the plates. Can you get a good photo of the bottom, center?
But ... I think the best way to install an e clip is to use your small needle nose pliers.
Set the clip into position, then one jaw on the back of the clip, the other on the opposite side of the arbor.
Gently squeeze it onto the arbor - no stress on the arbor.

 

[Mike Mall]

Is that gear upside down?

It is right in post #1, can see it from the side.

 

[Lost Time]

I agree with using pliers, but I don't have thin enough pliers to go under the gear and spider spring on the arbor that is about a 1/4" above the back plate. This is the crude tool I made of aluminum. would like to remove the drive shaft for the dancers but screw is very hard to undo no the shaft support. My screwdriver blades are either to thin or to thick. I will post photo when Ican remove shaft.

 

[Lost Time]

Mike M., More photos from different angles and the underside of clock. Hope this helps.

 

[Jeff T]

did you get the snail in the right position? the bushings on the hands are not just simply loose? the clutch could be slipping ... does it run at all?

 

[Mike Mall]

Mike M., More photos from different angles and the underside of clock. Hope this helps.

I can't see much still.
From what I can see I'm guessing the center arbor is driven directly from the chain wheel.
And the clutch for setting the hands is where the arrow is pointing.
If the clock ticks and the hands don't move, that would be where the problem lies - (If my guess is correct.)
The power has to go through that clutch, from the gear to the arbor.
The hands would be very easy to move too.

 

[Lost Time]

Jeff T., Snail is in the right position, bushings on the hands are tight, the clutch maybe slipping and yes it runs but no hand movement. Mike M., Yes, the center arbor is driven directly from the chain wheel via the silver barrel gear shown below. The arrow in your post is pointing to the spider spring.
Yes, the power has to go through that clutch, from the gear to the arbor.
The hands do move very easily. The e-clip should hold tension on the clutch, correct?

 

[Mike Mall]

Yes you are correct.
Now I see the purpose of your special tool.
Trying to reinstall it without disassembling the movement, is going to be a real trick.
Sort of like building a ship in a bottle. Good luck!

 

[Willie X]

You will have to compress the clutch (spider washer) and set the ''E"clip at the same time.

Your clock has probably been dropped. Some mighty force was encountered to pop that clip off.

Before you attempt putting the clip back on, twirl the minute hand round and round to see if the minute shaft is bent. These shafts can usually be straightened.

Willie X

 

[Lost Time]

Mike M., Yes, good analogy of ship in a bottle. Willie X., The shaft appears to be straight. I know that the minute hand was turned CCW at one time by a child. Would this cause the clip to pop out? How do I go about compressing the clutch. It is hit or miss at times. I have gotten it to compress at times and then it is not compressed. Noted by moving the cannon up and down and there is some spring action. Do you think using the tool I made could cause damage to the pivot or the shaft? I would disassemble the movement, but the dancers drive shaft support screw is very hard to undo.

 

[Willie X]

The hand tension should not vary.

It doesn't matter how you turn the minute hand as long as you are reasonably careful.

These clocks are difficult to assemble but you may have to disassemble it to do the dead.

Willie X

 

[Jeff T]

going to have to open it up take some pics and notes

 

[Lost Time]

Willie X, How is the spring action on the cannon engaged. Again, I can get it engaged and other times it comes loose. I have no idea how I'm getting it engaged, I seem that the spring action is coming from inside the cannon and not the clutch. Have run in another problem. A metal fragment as fallen out of the movement. It looks like a sheared steel gear tooth. I can't see where it came from yet. Where can I find parts for a Regula A72 movement? I have looked on the web but have found nothing.

 

[Mike Mall]

The e clip just falling off is suspicious, probably indicates something else out of sorts, as Willie suggested possibly a bent arbor.
Unfortunately the 72 is an uncommon movement, so there won't be many used ones available.
I see Clockworks has a listing for a new one - $680.
You may be best off watching the auction site for an old movement that can become a donor. Unless you're willing to shell out whatever it takes to get it running.
You should be able to find another Cuckoo with a 25, or 34 movement without much trouble. That can be put into working order for much less $$.
But in any case your options are basically take it to a pro and spend the money.
Buy a new movement, and take the gamble you'll be able to finish fitting it up.
Take it all apart, and use it as a learning experience - come what may.
Or move on.
Luckily Cuckoo clocks from this era aren't valuable, beyond whatever your sentiment is.

 

[Jeff T]

dont think thats a gear tooth maybe a piece of a trimmed bird perch or something unrelated to the movement open it up and see whats going on nothing to lose

 

[Lost Time]

I am taking the movement apart now but having trouble removing the screw from the music box fan control lever. It is very tight, and the screwdriver blade keeps slipping. Any suggestions on how to remove. I would hate to butcher the screw head. Shown on the brass barrel on lower right side of photo.

 

[Willie X]

Alternate penatrating oil and heat. With several hours wait time between each.

I often apply the penatrating oil, wait overnight and hit it with some heat (about 4 seconds) while applying moderate force with a well fitting screwdriver, repeat as necessary.

A good screwdriver should actually never slip. But slipping might be better than popping the tiny screw.

Willie X

 

[Lost Time]

What do you use as a heat source. Lighter, heat gun, or soldering iron? I know that the temp. coeffect of brass is much greater the steel, so are you heating the brass only. The arbor may be bent after my removing the movement so many times from the case. The silence level makes getting the movement out of the case very difficult. I know that the arbor has gotten trapped against the back of the dial face a few times. I will know for sure when I get the arbor out. What would be the best way to straighten it out?

 

[Jeff T]

soldering iron will work or small torch if you dont have an iron . heat the brass

 

[Lost Time]

Willie X, the heat and oil worked. I now see what you mean by compressing the spider washer before inserting the clip. Not sure how I can compress and insert e-clip at the same time without removing the arbor.
Jeff T, Used a soldering iron and a very cold screwdriver.
Clock is mostly apart except for the arbor and the gathering pallet. I have no idea how to remove them from the plate.

 

[Willie X]

I would leave that gear on the center shaft as is ...

Put the front plate securely in a vise, face down. Then apply downward pressure with a large pair of keen nose pliers against both sides of the spider washer's hub. When the dished out part of the washer is just below the lower edge of the e-clip groove, push in the e-clip. You may need another (smaller) pair of keen nose pliers for this, or you may be able to push it straight in with a largish screwdriver.

I still can't see how this could have ever come apart without some heavy external forces being involved.

Note, test the hand shaft clutch action thoroughly (very thoroughly) before you assemble. Willie X

 

[Jeff T]

leave it together do like willie suggests and put the clip back on . look for a funny spot on the groove where to clip goes before assembly ... ridge gouge or something never had one come off either

 

[Lost Time]

Es funtioniert jetz. Translation: It works now. Big Thank you, to all those who responded to my questions. Could not have done it without your help. Willie X, I think the e-clip popped out due to harmonic vibration. It was given to me in a closed box that I placed on the back floorboard of my wife's truck. We drove four hundred miles on highways that were under construction. A lot of the pavement was washboard surface that only allowed 20-to-30-mile an hour speed. When we got home, I opened the box to find that there was no packing material inside to protect the clock. To add to it all the gears and plates were very oily. Just one small problem now. The music will stop playing in the middle of the song from time to time but, not always. Not sure why.