Crystal Replacement Woes

[BobbyBrown]

Hello everyone,

I’m hoping you all might have some advice for replacing crystals and sizing them properly.

I’m trying to replace a crystal measuring 38.3mm, so I ordered a few 17 0/16 replacements.
All were marked as such, but all came in at different sizes: 37.8mm, 38mm, 38.2mm and 38.4mm.

Thats no good, so I bought another one marked “383” from eBay and the seller assured me it was a 38.3mm crystal.

No, it’s 38.2mm even though the sticker says “383”.

Im sitting here scratching my head over this size labeling issue. QC couldn’t have been that bad with these things, could it have been?

Where does one get a properly size marked crystal?

 

[Chris Radek]

My opinion: If you want a vintage crystal, send the bezel to someone who has a large stock, like daveswatchparts. If you want a modern crystal, order what you need from William White and it will be perfect and the right size. Ordering vintage crystals (or worse, buying huge lots of random vintage crystals of unknown sizes) just causes frustration.

 

[Bila]

All the old glass crystals (also normally they are out of round) can vary in size greatly and labels definately can not be relied upon. Also you need to decided what type of fitment process you are going to employ during the fitting process, if it will be heat, glue, or snap-in.

Years ago I posted about these procedures on this message board and others. This post spoke about crystal to bezel size depending on what procedure was going to get used.

Even the difference in expansion rates between different bezel metals was spoke about briefly as well as the difference in flexibility between different brands of acrylic crystals and the selection of size needed for a perfect fit

 

[MrRoundel]

Welcome to my nightmare. Actually, it's everybody's nightmare who doesn't have a set of crystals to size through to get it right. Whenever I order one crystal and it fits, I feel lucky indeed. So don't feel alone in the world.

One thing I have found, at least with vintage wristies, is that you're often better off buffing out the scratches, as they can be hard to find replacements. When I first started working on these critters, I broke a crystal that was definitely "buff-able" and had all sorts of issues with finding something that would work. And I had to soak the bezel in acetone to remove the glue and remnants. That cost me the minute markers that were painted on a rhodium ring. Now the first thing I ask myself is, "Is it buff-able?" It probably applies to pocket watches as well.

Sending it to Dave C. is a good idea, IMHO. Good luck.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Hundreds of military trained watchmakers started their own businesses after the war. They were picked clean by the crystal companies. The Swiss sold "Assortments" of glass crystals, hundreds and thousands of graduated sizes. They take up drawer space and look great but truth be known maybe 10% of them will fit something and the rest just sit there growing old. G&S was making plastic crystals and they weren't very good. SUC or "Rocket" sold beautiful, amazingly good Lucite plastic crystals that made G&S product look like so much junk. The Lucite had just been developed to make bubble canopy for the P51 Mustangs. It looked better than thick glass and the crystals were made to fit like a glove. G&S didn't stand a chance.....until..They started selling a system that involved huge assortments of all of the popular watch crystals and every month the company would send you the latest models and automatically replaced any crystals that had been used. G&S also improved their product to bring it up to a reasonable copy of the Rocket crystals. Not as good but a vast improvement that usually required some filing and hand fitting. They also invented a great crystal cement that held just well enough to work and wouldn't dry out or harden. G&S eventually put SUC out of business. The maker of the worst crystals won the war with tactics. So now all of those thousands of crystals that you will never use are scattered around America. I have five chests of them and I always go for the SUC crystals first. G&S is still in business and their product is much improved from those first assortments. $15-20 per crystal from the office. The Lucite SUC are still as good as they were 60 years ago. There is just no comparison.

 

[Al J]

The Swiss sold "Assortments" of glass crystals, hundreds and thousands of graduated sizes.

"The Swiss"?

GS is a US company...

SUC is a US company...

 

[Wimberleytech]

Have you solved your crystal problem yet? Just saw this post. I have lots of glass crystals recently acquires. I will go look if you still need a solution.

 

[Dave Haynes]

"The Swiss"?

GS is a US company...

SUC is a US company...

These vast Glass crystal assortments were a mix of European glass crystals and some USA glass in tons of sizes most fit nothing. I have the remnant of one from 1947. They had nothing to do with SUC or GS.

 

[Al J]

These vast Glass crystal assortments were a mix of European glass crystals and some USA glass in tons of sizes most fit nothing. I have the remnant of one from 1947. They had nothing to do with SUC or GS.

Who specifically was selling these?

Can't say as I've ever seen a "Swiss" crystal cabinet or assortment, but I have a mostly useless GS one sitting right beside me as I type this...

 

[Wimberleytech]

Who specifically was selling these?

Can't say as I've ever seen a "Swiss" crystal cabinet or assortment, but I have a mostly useless GS one sitting right beside me as I type this...

Yeah, I recently bough a GS cabinet full of crystals. All but the top two drawers are rectangular pillow style which I will likely never use. Good news is that I bought it with a ton of glass crystals and four cleaning machines and some misc stuff. I restored one of the cleaning machines and sold it for what I paid for the whole lot. I have the second cleaning machine almost done so I will be in the red soon.

 

[Al J]

Yeah, I recently bough a GS cabinet full of crystals. All but the top two drawers are rectangular pillow style which I will likely never use. Good news is that I bought it with a ton of glass crystals and four cleaning machines and some misc stuff. I restored one of the cleaning machines and sold it for what I paid for the whole lot. I have the second cleaning machine almost done so I will be in the red soon.

Yep - this is what assortments are all about - selling stuff that you will never use, along with some useful things. Doesn't matter if it's GS, SUC, Bestfit, etc. they pretty much are all this way if you buy the full package. Nothing particularly Swiss about it.

Recently had a cushion cased Gruen, and thought I might actually be able to use one of this crystals below the top 2 drawers...no luck - none fit. Ended up sending the case to my local supplier to have a crystal fitted.

 

[Dave Haynes]

"Who specifically was selling these? "
"Can't say as I've ever seen a "Swiss" crystal cabinet or assortment, but I have a mostly useless GS one sitting right beside me as I type this... "

I was three in 1947 so I never bought one. I believe that US Watch Material companies like C&E Marshall, LaRose, Jules Borel of which there were hundreds sold them.
You should get the GS and SUC ordering books they will have lots of information on whats in those cabinets and example info on what they made.. My most useful catalog is the SUC Rocket one. The scores of different shapes are listed by style and shape and there are drawings of each type. I simply look through the book open the proper drawer and there sits a beautiful Lucite crystal that will usually fit with almost no hand fitting with a file and GS glue. The early GS sets are not as well made but I've used many of them. The pocket watch crystals are in the top drawers and an attached machine with instructions is on top. I have dozens of plastic crystals for American pocket watches and use what is in the drawers all the time. Plastic pocket watch crystals are not as good as glass but they are almost as good and are free.

The useless debris of old watchmakers, the trays full of staffs, stems, and the cabinets with set bridges and hundreds of springs are handy to have around since every once in a while you will find something you need. Like a stem or boxes of crowns and hands that will make having that junk around. The secret is to buy in bulk. Wimberly's example is a great example. Beats paying $15 to Otto Frei and $9 shipping for a stem.

 

[Al J]

"Who specifically was selling these? "
"Can't say as I've ever seen a "Swiss" crystal cabinet or assortment, but I have a mostly useless GS one sitting right beside me as I type this... "

I was three in 1947 so I never bought one. I believe that US Watch Material companies like C&E Marshall, LaRose, Jules Borel of which there were hundreds sold them.
You should get the GS and SUC ordering books they will have lots of information on whats in those cabinets and example info on what they made.. My most useful catalog is the SUC Rocket one. The scores of different shapes are listed by style and shape and there are drawings of each type. I simply look through the book open the proper drawer and there sits a beautiful Lucite crystal that will usually fit with almost no hand fitting with a file and GS glue. The early GS sets are not as well made but I've used many of them. The pocket watch crystals are in the top drawers and an attached machine with instructions is on top. I have dozens of plastic crystals for American pocket watches and use what is in the drawers all the time. Plastic pocket watch crystals are not as good as glass but they are almost as good and are free.

The useless debris of old watchmakers, the trays full of staffs, stems, and the cabinets with set bridges and hundreds of springs are handy to have around since every once in a while you will find something you need. Like a stem or boxes of crowns and hands that will make having that junk around. The secret is to buy in bulk. Wimberly's example is a great example. Beats paying $15 to Otto Frei and $9 shipping for a stem.

Right, so these can be useful, but you will never use it all. And again, nothing particularly Swiss about it.

 

[Wimberleytech]

" so I will be in the red soon."

How about "black" lol.