Feature Conversations are Private and often Called Private Messages (PM)

Tom McIntyre

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I think the title tells it all, We receive a lot of questions because the facility was called PM quite a while ago. Nothing has really changed except that it is a little more flexible.
 

PatH

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I think the title tells it all, We receive a lot of questions because the facility was called PM quite a while ago. Nothing has really changed except that it is a little more flexible.
Thanks for that reminder, Tom. Many of us still refer to them as PMs rather than conversations. And on another note, to start a conversation, click on the user's name or avatar and select Start Conversation.
 

Tom McIntyre

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You may also use the envelope icon next to your username to open your mailbox and use the links there if you do not see the person's name with a forum message (Our threads are also called discussions in some references. discussion/thread and message/post are also confusing.

The problem is that after 20 years of communicating, there are lots of variations that have occured.
 

Jim Haney

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Why don't you just change the term back to Message.

I realize that in today's world it is the current tread to call things by non- descriptive terms instead of the correct meaning of what you are describing...................:cuckoo::banghead:
 
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Dave T

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Why don't you just change the term back to Message.

I realize that in today's world it is the current tread to call things by non- descriptive terms instead of the correct meaning of what you are describing...................:cuckoo::banghead:
I agree, keep it simple.
 

Tom McIntyre

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Is this a message? For me a message is sent and may or may not expect a reply. Questions are messages that expect a reply or at least want one. English is a very complicated language. Some English speakers enjoy all the available nuances, others find them annoying.

We did call this facility the Message Board when it began. The problem with that for me, is that it conjures up the image of a cork board with slips of paper pnned up with map pins.

A Forum is a place for topical discussions among the participants that provides the opportunity to listen for others who do not necessarily participate.

A conversation is a discussion among two or more individuals. The term conversation implies relationship between the participants. Private Message carries a hint of threat for me and I find conversation much more acceptable.
 
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Bill Stuntz

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Why don't you just change the term back to Message.
We discussed that (while you were a moderator) when we converted from vB to XF. "Conversation" is a much more accurate description tha PM for the way it's done in XF, which was already established. "Private Thread" or "PT" might be slightly more accurate terminology, but why reinvent the wheel?

Do you remember how much of PITA PM's were in the old vB MB? Each message was a totally independent entity. Each reply had to contain a quote of the original message to maintain continuity. So you had to read through quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes of each previous message in each independent reply. No attachments allowed, etc. :banghead::mallet::screwball: And the list of PM's was terrible with PM's from different people all mixed together depending on when they were sent rather than keeping all messages on a given subject together. PITA
 

Jim Haney

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Bill,
All of the problems you described are gone with our new system, so they are not relevant to today.

Tom,
Sorry you feel threatened by the word Private Message, I can't imagine why you would feel that way?

The bottom line is still my original point that the word Conversations implies a talk between 2 people Face to Face not written.

Most new people that I try to talk with have no idea what a Private Conservation is until I explain it......


People also ask


What is the true meaning of conversation?


: a talk between two or more people : the act of talking.
 

Bill Stuntz

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Jim, PM is a carry-over from our old system, and other non-XF message boards. I remember suggesting that we rename them to "Conversation/PM" to make it clearer, and was outvoted. At this point, I think it's pointless to worry about it. "PM" explicitly says private and "Conversation" only implies it, but I think the concept is clear enough as-is. I admit, the dictionary states that conversation is oral communication, which is a bit difficult to accomplish without shouting VERY loudly here. And (especially) teenagers believe that texting IS conversation, in spite of what the dictionary says. I think you're splitting hairs. And I agree, "PM me" is much easier to type. :D
 
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Jim Haney

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Bill,

Yes, I understand your points and don't see why it would take any effort to go into it and change the meaning to reflect the true meaning because as you say I can't shout that loud.

The whole system is bogus because they are not Private, with the report button it becomes available for all the Admins/Mods to read.....


It certainly would be easier to communicate with Newbies with a PM ,rather than a Conservation, which they don't understand for the obvious reason, unless you call them.............
 

Tom McIntyre

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You may be right Jim, but this is symptomatic of not looking at what is in front of one. At the top border of the screen is an icon of an envelope and it gets a very visible red dot in it with a number for the current conversations the user has not responded to or read.

The "I did not see it" response when asked about that continues to amaze me. I recognize that some of our members are uncomfortable with computers and are afraid to click on anything unless they know what will happen if they do.

I have put a lot of effort into this system to make sure that no one can be injured by clicking on anything in the public areas.
 
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Bill Stuntz

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The whole system is bogus because they are not Private, with the report button it becomes available for all the Admins/Mods to read.....
Jim, I don't think that's a valid argument. In vB, admins/mods had the capability to view PM's. And I assure you that no ethical admin/mod would EVER look at any user's PM's unless one of the participants complained that they were being harrassed/spammed, etc. via PM. i KNOW that I never did, and AFAIK, the situation that would justify doing it to investigate a complaint/report hasn't arisen. I could be wrong, but if it has happened, I wasn't involved. If you were being harrassed via PM, wouldn't you want admins/mods to investigate? Or if I reported you for harrassment, would you want them to just accept my word & ban/suspend you? He said... NO, HE said... is NOT investigating a situation. Investigating requires examining evidence, which requires access.
 

Bila

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The whole system is bogus because they are not Private, with the report button it becomes available for all the Admins/Mods to read.....

There is zero need for any admin /moderator person to look at anyone's PM, even under the complaint/harassment scenario that has be mentioned, if someone is making a complainant about someones PM, it is very easy for the complainant to take a screen shot of the offending message and send to the moderator/admin team for investigation. Therefore the privacy and integrity of the messaging system is ensured. So technically if we want to split-hairs about it, the Private Messaging system is not private, as Jim has alluded to:)
 
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Jerry Treiman

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The bottom line is still my original point that the word Conversations implies a talk between 2 people Face to Face not written.
Just sayin' it don't make it so.

Ever since the advent of the internet and DOS list-serves (evolving to "message boards" and "forums", email and social media), where we can read and react or respond, we have been having conversations with other people with shared interests. The give-and-take makes it a conversation (like we are having here). It does not need to be face-to-face (although I do miss the communication cues through facial expression). Do you converse with friends over the telephone? Our "conversations" utility here allows us to control who may participate, as opposed to the open forum communications.
 

musicguy

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The whole system is bogus because they are not Private, with the report button it becomes available for all the Admins/Mods to read.....
I have never seen anyone's private conversations, and when someone
reports one I can't see it either. Someone needs to quote it for us to see
those are my permissions. Maybe Admins can.

Rob
 

Jim Haney

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Well, I doubt that anything will change, my point is that if I want to contact someone, it is by a Message, not a conservation.....

If I called them or spoke with them in person, YES that would be a conservation.............:whistle:
 

Bill Stuntz

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I have never seen anyone's private conversations, and when someone
reports one I can't see it either. Someone needs to quote it for us to see
those are my permissions. Maybe Admins can.
Maybe I was an exception because I was so deeply involved in the conversion to XF? But I was never a mod, so I don't know for sure. All I know is that I never even tried to look at anyone's private messages, even though while I was an admin, I could. And I don't recall ever even seeing a "reported" conversation that might have justified trying to look at it.

IMHO, we've pretty well beaten this subject to death.
 
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Dave Coatsworth

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Conversations are private. Not even I, as Senior Administrator, can peek in on a conversation, even if reported. The member reporting a conversation must invite a mod or admin into the conversation if they want us to see and act on it. Or, then can send a screenshot to a mod or admin.
 

Steven Thornberry

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In vB, admins/mods had the capability to view PM's.
I don't recall ever having had the capability of viewing someone else's PM's on vBulletin, except in two special situations. First, if one of the original participants in the exchange forwarded to me one of the messages, for whatever reason. Second, if I had occasion to log in as another user, then I had all the permissions of that user. That happened very infrequently and always in order to help that user who was experiencing a problem in using the message board. I never took the occasion to look at the PM's, which I probably would have found boring in any event. But, I do not remember ever having had the capability generally. It would have been a violation of a person's privacy to have set up permissions in that way.
 

Bill Stuntz

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Second, if I had occasion to log in as another user, then I had all the permissions of that user.
Steven, I hadn't thought about that when I posted earlier. So my recent posts were unintentionally misleading apparently due to a brain toot. I needed that capability to get a "normal user" view of the old/new MB's while we were developing the new one. I had to use it a few times (with the user's permission) when I couldn't reproduce a problem because of my administrator's view. I used that capability a couple times to impersonate a moderator, too - because they also have a different view from admins. I don't think I ever used it again after I was allowed to create an "alter-ego BillS" account and play with "his" permissions to get views of the MB with different permission sets & test those permissions. And I asked that that 2nd account be combined with my real account when I resigned as an admin, since multiple accounts are a rule violation. Actually, I think you were the one who "killed" BillS.
 
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