Considerations about the need to make an escape wheel.

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by victor miranda, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User
    Donor

    Jan 13, 2017
    120
    1
    18
    computer programming stuff
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have been trying to get my test clock to quit fluttering.

    My bag of tricks is pretty much done. I can't seem to get a reliable lock on the escape
    and as I lower the verge the pallet scrapes the escape wheel. I am thinking the wheel is a bit small.

    the clock is a shatz 53 variant.

    I have the tools to make an escape wheel.
    any one know the proper diameter dimensions?

    I am planning to make it bigger and then trim it.

    the reason I am here is to ask if there are other ways to fix this?

    victor
     
  2. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

    Dec 2, 2016
    1,869
    2
    38
    watchmaker
    Western NSW, Australia
    Country Flag:
    From recall, the Schatz naturally has a small escape wheel. What makes you think the wheel is needing replacement? Do you believe it may have been replaced by someone else with the wrong wheel or do you believe that the teeth have been filed off too far? Have you photos?
     
  3. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User
    Donor

    Jun 24, 2011
    2,319
    10
    38
    Male
    Medical Insurance Systems Analyst
    El Dorado, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have the best luck with these by putting the fork just under one of its own width below the top block.
    Every once in a while I have to lift one, higher.
    In extreme cases, you may need to angle the pin forward and the fork upward so that their tips are where contact is made.
    Make sure the gap on the fork is correct to the anchor pin, as well (~.004").
     
  4. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User
    Donor

    Jan 13, 2017
    120
    1
    18
    computer programming stuff
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    photos I can do when I get home tonight.
    The schatz 53 is a small clock, no doubt.

    the specific reason I think the problem escape wheel is small is because I measured it
    and compared it to another escape wheel. ( I have no idea of the real history of any of these parts.)
    the problem wheel is about 8 thousands in diameter smaller than the wheel I measured.

    I set the bigger escape wheel into the clock.
    the bigger wheel seems better and I do not get the 'lock' I want...
    so I am thinking perhaps I have two old worn escapes.
    or bigger is better :-D

    and I still need to find a way to repair this problem.
    evenutally, all of these clock will need this repair.
    ( assuming it is a worn part and not my repairs/adjustment skills)

    victor

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi MartinM

    I'll try those ideas.

    they are not in the range I usually try.

    victor
     
  5. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

    Dec 2, 2016
    1,869
    2
    38
    watchmaker
    Western NSW, Australia
    Country Flag:
    Actually it is very unusual to consider an escape wheel in a 400 day clock to be worn enough to require replacement. Teeth may bend or be broken off and the wheel can be re-trued. There is a lot of adjustment available in most.
     
  6. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User
    Donor

    Jan 13, 2017
    120
    1
    18
    computer programming stuff
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi roughbarked,

    I agree a worn escape is unusual. This clock is unusual for me.... my bag of tricks is not working.

    the pivots involved seem the same as most other clocks like it. it is not too fussy about running.
    My 'normal' is to set the verge well into the escape, I think of it as 'low as possible'
    and most times the clock runs well.

    this escape wheel and the replacement and the swapped verge do not seem to catch above the impulse faces.... all the time?
    extra power can have it flutter a tooth or two. (think full wind and minute hand at 4 oclock.)

    I may try a third escape wheel...
    if that solves the problem then I'd still need a 'fix' for the two bad wheels...

    thus why I asked about dimensions.

    victor
     
  7. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User
    Donor

    Jan 13, 2017
    120
    1
    18
    computer programming stuff
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I got home late tonight.

    The clock runs. It ran before the new escape was installed also.
    I was attempting to regulate the clock and I was not getting consistent time over a day.
    I definitely was not getting a day's run that matches what I expected.

    most days I'd get a minute or two fast some days three or four.
    I did catch it fluttering once...

    so I decided to sort that out.
    after my attempts to fix, I'd get flutter while I was setting the beat and confirming pendulum rate.
    I was quite tired of adjusting it and had it about as good as I could get it when I gave up for the night.
    If I get another day of the clock gaining just 9 minutes a day...
    I'll consider the problem solved.

    victor
     
  8. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

    Dec 2, 2016
    1,869
    2
    38
    watchmaker
    Western NSW, Australia
    Country Flag:
    Well, you should list all the things you have done to it or not done. Has the gap between the fork and the anchor pin been changed? Has the pin been bent in relation to the anchor? Has the depth of locking been altered? Is the clock perfectly in beat? The last thing you should be looking at is the escape wheel.
     
  9. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User
    Donor

    Jan 13, 2017
    120
    1
    18
    computer programming stuff
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Hi roughbarked,

    I think we are headed away from what caused me to post.

    I think I know how to get a 400 day clock going.
    so try not to assume I am asking how to get it going,
    for it is going as of the last time I looked at it.

    the reason I post words and phrases, "like am I over looking something?"
    is because I do not know everything.

    Like most people, I have ways and preferences I use when aligning a clock.
    this clock and the original parts exceeded my ideas of 'reasonable' and still fluttered.
    so I was hunting for what might be involved in adjusting it to run without flutter.

    pivots, verge, escape wheel, fork, pendulum, and suspension spring are all to be considered.

    the escape caught my attention because it is smaller than another and so I asked about dimensions.

    I agree it is unusual for an escape to be worn past utility.
    that does not mean that point does not exist.

    making an escape wheel is an amount of work I think I'd like to avoid.
    So far, the thinking being shared with me is that the wheel rarely wears, see if
    you can get it to go with the fork raised a bit more.

    and that makes me think the escape wheel is a bit worn...
    cause the old parts and the fork raised enough to not flutter.... didn't run but an hourish.

    victor
     
  10. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User
    Donor

    Jan 13, 2017
    120
    1
    18
    computer programming stuff
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    update.

    ok... after three days of gaining 9 minutes a day
    I an thinking the clock runs and it is likely not fluttering
    so replacement verge and escape seem to be the solution.

    over this weekend I will re-measure the old escape and post that.
    ... I dropped the old verge and it broke. so who knows? it may be the verge was the problem anyway.

    victor
     
  11. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User
    Donor

    Jan 13, 2017
    120
    1
    18
    computer programming stuff
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #13 victor miranda, Sep 8, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
    I measured the small escape wheel at .462 inches.
    I had to use math to get there.
    measure pinion measure the tooth with pinion subtract half the pinion and double the radius.

    the way I compared the two wheels was by setting two points on one side of the calipers and touching down on the one tooth opposite.
    that got me .435 and .443 for the small and replacement escapes, respectively.


    and I took a picture .... gimmie a bit to upload it.
    View attachment 355992
     
  12. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    1,530
    6
    38
    Retired
    Mascoutah, IL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Just checked one I have apart and it measures .439" using your second method. There's obviously some variation.

    I always figured there was some person at Schatz final assembly who had the knowledge and experience to set these up without much thought about it. That person probably had bins of parts to pick and match to get the clock running.

    I've had mixed results getting the little ones to run. I have one that gave me such frustration I stored it way in a display cabinet. I moved the cabinet for some remodeling, and some time later noticed something moving. There was that frustrating little clock ticking away. It ran for several more months.

    Eric
     
  13. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User
    Donor

    Jan 13, 2017
    120
    1
    18
    computer programming stuff
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    !!! cool!
    I like the story
    and it is good to know exact sizes may not be the driver of problems.


    In other news....
    well, I clearly don't know how to get a 400 day clock going.
    I've restarted the clock in question three times today... it ran for more than 4 days.

    I want to kill it and eat it.

    victor
     
  14. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User
    Donor

    Jan 13, 2017
    120
    1
    18
    computer programming stuff
    Baltimore
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I should be a little forthcoming with some explanation of my being annoyed with
    the test clock. The day before the stalls, it still fluttered, so I raised the fork.
    The fork was at .096 inches from the top block, I raised it to .080.

    It seemed ok. so I put it on the shelf and that was where the 3 stalls happened.
    It ran a whole day after that last re-start and I have not checked it this morning.
    it also did not flutter.

    Yesterday I cleaned and oiled another clock and measured its escape.
    I got .439 using the three point method.

    victor
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Considerations need escape Forum Date
Need clock ID 400 days to get it fixed. 400-Day & Atmos Aug 16, 2017
Atmos Calibre 560 +/- Adjustment: Need to lock balance or not? 400-Day & Atmos Feb 28, 2017
considerations for mainspring repair or renewal. 400-Day & Atmos Feb 1, 2017
Need torsion spring for Haller 400-Day & Atmos Jan 16, 2017
Alcohol and Brass - any considerations? 400-Day & Atmos Sep 8, 2014

Share This Page