Confused

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by RyanM, Feb 27, 2019.

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  1. RyanM

    RyanM Registered User
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    Feb 27, 2019
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    I inherited a pocket watch and on the front it says North Shore Limited. I did some research and found these forums to have the most information about such things. What I read here and other places was that North Shore was never a manufacturer name, and in fact it was most strongly associated with the North Shore railroad.

    I learned that I'd have to open the back of the watch to find the manufacturer, which should be on the mechanism. After several days of trying, the back finally opened. Imagine my surprise and frustration when I see "North Shore Limited" there as well. I'm stumped.

    I've taken some photos and am asking for help in identifying what exactly I have. The watch isn't working and is in well used condition, however I can make out most of the lettering.

    If anyone can shed light on this, I would be very appreciative.

    20190227_180430.jpg 20190227_180527.jpg 20190227_180501.jpg 20190227_180639.jpg 20190227_180925.jpg 20190227_180821.jpg 20190227_181103.jpg 20190227_181005.jpg
     
  2. Tom Huber

    Tom Huber Registered User
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    This is what is known to collectors as a Swiss Fake. A Swiss made watch made to look American, but of inferiority quality to an American made watch

    Tom
     
  3. RyanM

    RyanM Registered User
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    Feb 27, 2019
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    I feared as much. Is there any way to get anymore information from the serial numbers or any of the other markings? Or should I just melt it for the silver content?
     
  4. 179

    179 Registered User
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    #4 179, Feb 27, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
    In a word, no on serial info. A bit more bad news, there is no silver in Oresilver cases.
     
  5. Christopher Burris

    Christopher Burris Registered User
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    If there was any doubt left, the word "SWISS" is stamped on the movement at the bottom to the left of the case screw.
     
    Keith R... likes this.
  6. RyanM

    RyanM Registered User
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    While on one hand, it was disappointing to learn that this watch is a swiss fake, I do appreciate you all taking the time to help solve my mystery. Thanks!
     
  7. CentreKeystone

    CentreKeystone Registered User
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    Feb 19, 2014
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    If it is marked "Swiss" it is not a fake. It is interesting in its own right and should be preserved.
     
  8. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    On the contrary, the "Swiss" marking confirms that its a Swiss fake.
    • I doubt that it has 23 functional jewels (if it has 23 jewels at all).
    • It doesn't appear to have a bimetallic temperature compensated balance.
    • Given the balance it appears to have, the movement marking "Adjusted" and the dial marking "Specially Adjusted" are laughable.
    • The additional top plate with its exposed winding wheels is usually an indication of a Swiss Fake. I'd be surprised if the winding wheels even turn when the watch is wound.
    • The very name "North Shore Limited" is meant to associate the watch with railroads - another indication of Swiss fakes.

    On a positive note; I agree that It is interesting in its own right. Some people collect these types of watches.
     
    Keith R..., 179 and musicguy like this.
  9. Christopher Burris

    Christopher Burris Registered User
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    I have to agree with CentreKeystone post #7, since it is marked, it's not a fake, it is a marked Swiss watch. Now if the 23 Jewels are not jewels or not totaling 23, that would put "fake" back into play.
     
  10. 179

    179 Registered User
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    Agree 100% with Kent. It is not the country of origin that makes it a fake. It is what it pretends to be that does.
     
  11. GeneJockey

    GeneJockey Registered User
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    Looks like a flat hairspring, too.
     
  12. hc3

    hc3 Registered User

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    Maybe we should call it a "Swiss fraud" rather than a "Swiss fake".
     
  13. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I am not sure how we should classify this wide range of Swiss production that ranges from fine watches with fake names either English or American to rube watches intended to be sold to the woefully uninformed that have little or no jewelling (sometimes celluloid jewels) and exorbitant false claims on the plates.

    I have one such watch that was likely made in Liverpool rather than Switzerland that pretends to be a Waltham 1857 model, except that it is a much higher grade watch than any Waltham had made at that time. Apart from pretending to have been made in Boston, it has nothing to complain about.

    Seth Thomas actually advertised their fake watches as suitable for traveling salesmen to carry for the purpose of defrauding rubes. The idea was that you could sell anything to someone you would never see again.
     
    Lee Passarella likes this.
  14. topspin

    topspin Registered User

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    I really like this watch. Timekeeping / engineering quality aside, front and back it is aesthetically far superior to 99% of the American watches I see doing the rounds.
    Swiss fakes generally are pretty interesting to look at if nothing else, and sometimes even quite amusing.
     
  15. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I agree with Topspin, it is interesting. Even with the faux top plate and wheels.



    20190227_180430-jpg.jpg
     
  16. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    Maybe it's a fake Swiss watch. :D
     
  17. RyanM

    RyanM Registered User
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    First, I'd like to reiterate my appreciation of the wealth of knowledge in this community, and also in the general willingness of this community to share that knowledge.

    Second, I'm feeling a renewed optimism about this watch. Knowing what it is now, I can move past any disappointment I may have had by accepting it for what it is. As far as I can tell, this watch is similar in style to some American watches of the time, however it isn't displaying anything that is overtly fraudulent, such as a false manufacturer name. (Although I'm skeptical about the jewel count and the "adjusted" mark.)

    Third and finally, I'm going to post this watch in the appropriate category to discuss value and other financial topics. I hope a few of you will post there.

    Again, thanks!
     
  18. RyanM

    RyanM Registered User
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    Or, maybe I won't post my watch in the "what is it worth" category, as I don't have permission to do so...
     
  19. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Ryan,
    Read the instructions for the 'What is it worth' category. It will tell you what you need to do before you can post.
     
  20. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    Hello Ryan
    I know from your two threads your down about the case not being silver, but to explain, oresilver is a trade name for a nickel alloy. There were lots of names many companies used. Oresilver, silverode, silveride, silverine, silveroid, ect.ect. they are strong durable cases that when shined up resemble silver. The case isn't a knock off or anything it's a real fahys case which they made tons of and we're very popular judging by how many I've seen around. It was a sturdy and economical option besides gold and silver.
     
  21. RyanM

    RyanM Registered User
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    Thanks Richard.

    I admit at first I was disappointed, however I've found several reasons to appreciate my watch for what it is, a pretty watch that has a story to tell about the early market and practices of watchmaking. It isn't something people collect often, as the engineering wasn't on par with other watches of the era, sure. However, in terms of the presentation and beauty of the movement, I've seen few American watches that match mine. (I'm sure there are several as nice looking or nicer, but the vast bulk are not.)

    My watch also brought me here, where I have been able to read and learn about watch collecting and other related subjects. I must say, I'm getting hooked on early timepieces, especially watches, and am planning what kind of collection I want.

    In short, I see nothing about my watch in which to be disappointed.
     

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