National Meeting 2019 Come to Springfield in June for a great time

Discussion in 'NAWCC Events' started by Tom McIntyre, Feb 22, 2019.

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  1. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The 2019 National Meeting in Springfield MA to be held June 27, 28 29 and 30 is shaping up well and the program and local tours are organized.

    This year we are going for "full transparency" on the run up to the event. The map of the facility is published on the event web site at https://2019nationalconvention.nawcc.org. under the registration tab.

    There is a nearly complete list of sites in the area that deserve a visit under the Your Visit tab.

    Three of our major New England museums with extensive horological collections will be holding special activities for NAWCC members and guests.

    An incredible exhibit is planned and shaping up quickly.

    If you have questions about the event, please ask them here so that we can all share the answers.
     
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  2. Splord

    Splord Registered User
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    What is the WWT mart? I'm not familiar with that acronym.
     
  3. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    World Wide Traders. This link is on the convention web site:

    https://wwtshows.com/
     
  4. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Tom: Will there be a silent auction table or a manned table if a member has just one or two things to sell?

    Frank
     
  5. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    2019MartTablesMap.pdf Yes, If you look at this Mart Room Map (also on the web site), there are 20 tables for the Silent Auction that will run multiple cycles when the Mart is open.

    There is a second map of the entire facility that shows the physical relationships more accurately and includes the facilities such as restaurants.
    MartMapReal.pdf
     

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  6. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Tom: Thanks! Frank
     
  7. hc3

    hc3 Registered User

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    My experience with our Regional is that the mart is full and busy on Friday, many table holders leave Friday night and by noon Saturday amost every table holder is gone. What are the busy days in Springfield? I'm considering going, but it will be from far away and I don't want to come to an empty room. Thank you!
     
  8. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Look at the schedule and the show is basically Sat-Sunday, Set up is 2-4 Friday and ,all day Saturday and half a day Sunday.

    There is the WWT https://wwtshows.com/ show Thursday & Friday
     
  9. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    We are going over on Wednesday to start the set up. Thursday is local tours and arrivals and the WWT first day.

    Friday is lectures in the morning set up from 2 to 4 with Early Entry admission and the auction Friday night. Saturday morning is the Annual Meeting and the mart with more lectures and the Banquet Saturday night. Sunday until 2:00 is mart and two lectures from Dan Horan of Schmitt-Horan Auctions and Nick Butt of Chelsea.

    There is a large cash drawing for table holders who are still fully set up at 12:30 (no packed boxes).

    This meeting is a serious attempt to accommodate people who cannot come during the week and we are anticipating a significant number of walk ins late Friday for the Saturday Sunday show.
     
  10. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    Good work!

    Rob
     
  11. Joseph Short

    Joseph Short Registered User
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    #11 Joseph Short, Jun 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
    I found the schedule to be VERY confusing, to the point of being misleading. The event has been advertised, touted, and announced as a 4 day event. Running from 6/27 to 6/30. As soon as I decided to attend, I arranged for time off from work on 627, and 6/28. I was excited to be attending. I figured since my weekends are currently full, with other responsibilities, going during the week would be fine. I registered (early) for both myself and my wife. That process was easy enough except there was no place to enter her name. As a result, her name tag reads "NEED FOR Short", how welcoming. As the time approached, I printed out the schedule, and took a closer look. That's when I noticed that for the regular members, other than museum tours, there were no activities scheduled on Thursday. Ok, I probably should have looked at the schedule before I took time off, my mistake. But there are lectures, and the mart (WWT), so Friday morning we set off for Springfield. Traffic on the way was unexpectedly heavy. That, and a missed turn, and we arrived a good bit later than I had hoped. Ok, I thought, there's still the mart, that is what I was most interested in anyhow. After driving around the building we could not find any sign, or other indication of where the entrance was.
    Then we noticed a door that someone entered. We parked, walked to the door, and discovered a sign that said "NAWCC" with an arrow pointing to the left. We walked around the corner and found an open unmarked door and walked in.
    Fortunately it was the right entrance. We went to the table to sign in and obtain our name tags and package. It was there that we were informed that the WWT mart was not actually part of the convention. In fact one of the ladies at the table mentioned that her husband wandered into that area to find a restroom, but was scared off by armed guards. So I inquired what activities were available. I was told that we could return in a few hours for "early bird" entrance into the mart. All we had to do was buy a couple of special stickers for admittance. For $50 each. No joke, $50 each. So, after taking time off, and pre registering for what has been called a 4 day event, I am told to come up with $100 so I can come back in a few more hours to walk through a mart, looking at all sorts of wonderful items being sold. I left, very disappointed, and drove home. The first thing I did was look at the website. Maybe I missed the $50 per person admission to a sales mart. I have yet to find any reference to the $50 extra charge. Plenty of clear references to the admission fees for the museum tours, but nothing about early admissions to the mart.
    Sadly, many other commitments will keep me from returning during the weekend.
    Had the schedule been even slightly clear, I could have rearranged my time. But, my first, and based on this experience, only national convention has been a truly disappointing and souring experience.
     
  12. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I am sorry you found the schedule confusing. As I said in the post above this National was intended as a 3 1/2 day meeting with the last day and a half for the Mart.

    It might be a good idea to put the fee for scheduled activities in the schedule. The Museum fees were there as a courtesy because they are charged by the museums, not the NAWCC.

    Early Bird entry is common at many antique shows and allows purchasers to enter during the time the dealers who have paid for space are setting up their merchandise. the $50 is calculated to be less than the cost of renting a table so that people would not rent tables with no intent to use them just to get into the mart area sooner.

    We had excellent reports on the Willard House tour conducted by Robert Cheney and the Walking Tour of the J. Cheney Wells clock collection at Old Sturbridge Village. It featured an inside look at one of the earliest 8 day tall clocks and discussion of the collection by Peter Nunes.

    The tours with Patti Phillipon, Director and Tom Manning. Curator/Conservator of the American Clock and Wtch Museum of Bristol was also well received and they are planning another tour tomorrow on Sunday.

    Thursday evening we had a nice reception buffet for $35 each and Robert Cheney gave a delightful talk on the early days of the Willards and his own childhood days of exploring the Willard homestead when his father visited there.

    Friday morning at the event in Springfield we had a series of lectures starting with Andy Dervan at 10:00 and yours truly at 11:00. I think the attendees enjoyed my recap of the life of the New York/Hampden Watch Co. of Springfield andthe impact of its three major players on the watch industry and Hamilton Watch Co. in particular.

    New York Watch Co.pdf I was overwhelmed when you and your wife arrived at registration, because I was trying to get badge printers and other equipment working while dozens of impatient members wanted to get registered or change something in their registration. I saw your disappointment and wished there were something I could do.

    Here is the slide set from the talk I gave on Friday. We may do it as a webinar sometime to recapture the narrative.
     

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  13. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    The WWT pre-show is one of the reasons I did not attend this National. I do not want to spend all of the money to attend the NAWCC show when much of the merchandise has already been picked over for two days. I also do not understand why the WWT mart is even listed as part of our program. Do we partner with them in some way? Doesn't entry at WWT require a separate registration fee or do NAWCC attendees get a pass?
     
  14. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    #14 musicguy, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    The WWT mart cost $25 a person and your spouse was free(I know because I attended) .
    Their Mart was less than 1/10 the size of the NAWCC
    Mart(I was surprised how small it was). There were watch sellers that attended both
    but many many more were at the NAWCC mart. Their mart didn't
    adversely effect the NAWCC Mart and a few that were there
    had bigger tables at the NAWCC mart. There were a lot of nice
    watches at our event, and as always prices were all over the place
    (but there were great deals to be had.)

    I was a little surprised that we had to pay to get into
    the much smaller WWT mart, I had erroneously thought
    it would be free with our own admission fee.

    I did pay because Tom's presentation(which was very good)
    wasn't for a few hours and we had time to kill.
    I didn't buy anything at the WWT Mart but they did
    have some nice stuff there, but mostly modern(to me) Wrist Watches.


    Rob
     
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  15. Joseph Short

    Joseph Short Registered User
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    Thank you all for your responses. I would like to make some suggestions for future conventions.
    First, break the schedule into 3 smaller schedules. One for the board meetings, another one for NAWCC mart vendors and table holders. The third would be for the rest of the attendees that are coming from far and wide to experience the events of a convention.
    Second, any organization that has a parallel event, like WWT had in Springfield, should not be included in the NAWCC schedule of events. If they want to announce their event to our membership, they should purchase advertising on our website, and in our publications.
    Third, we should do away with the early bird entry to the mart. Some members go to great expense to attend the convention, incurring travel, hotel, and food expenses just to be here. Many are searching for something special to add to their collection. Granting early access to some is unfair to the rest of us. Many can't make it to the early opening. Keeping to a single opening, provides a couple of benefits. First, it allows the table holders to setup their displays unencumbered by early bird onlookers. Second, it makes the mart more equitable to everyone. We would all have an equal opportunity to find that certain something.
    Adding a place for the members to include the name of their spouse or guest on the pre registration website would be great too. People always feel better about a new experience, when they are made to feel included and respected.
    Finally, all extra fees need to be presented clearly and as overtly as possible. Fees that are not easily found, lead to feelings of being cheated by the surprised parties. These fees really need to be fully disclosed on the schedule of events as well.

    I am sorry that ultimately I was unable to attend the national, especially when it was so close to home. I had really hoped to meet so many of the wonderful people that make these online forums so great. I hope that the event is successful and that I am able to find the opportunity to attend one successfully myself.

    Oh, and another idea. Many of us on the forums use handle, or nickname, instead of our actual name. It might be a nice option to be able to add that nickname to our name tags. While I probably would not have recognized Rob had I bumped into him, I certainly would have recognized "musicguy".
    Missed it by that much.....

    I am from Massachusetts, and have not been active in either of the chapters here. If anyone from chapter 8, or 87 reads this thread, and feels that I could contribute to the future growth and success of the chapter, or the club. Please reach out to me. I am happy to put some action behind my words.
     
  16. hc3

    hc3 Registered User

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    Mr. Short, you would have been even more irritated had you shown up Sunday, or even Saturday. Saturday afternoon saw dealers packing up before two P.M, I'll bet that more than half were not there Sunday morning. The "hours" for every regional I've ever been to are all but fraudulent.

    The NAWCC should provide honest hours and terminate the membership of dealers who don't stay the full time, or at least stop charging stupid prices for customers to see a largely empty room. I've seen this deception before, but can you imagine the impression it makes on one of the "new members" we're supposed to be trying to attract, who's paid almost $100 to go to an event that's over before he gets in the door?

    Even at the supposed peak of the mart, Saturday morning, there were easily three or four times as many dealers there as "customers". It is a mystery to me that the room was even as full of dealers as it was. This is a dying model.

    Face it, entry to marts is one of the organisation's main products and it ought to be worth the price charged.

    I'm not even going to talk about $80 for an on line only membership that costs the NAWCC what, $5?
     
  17. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The cost of printing and mailing the Watch & Clock Bulletin is modest. It requires all the publication and administrative staff as the hard copy product does. The Museum and Library also provide much of their content on-line. That percentage will grow as new products are deployed.

    Using the "next customer" cost model to determine the value of something is not really fair. If you want to make that analogy, the first member each year would have to pay a bill of $1M to allow the remainder enjoy their $5 benefit. If we had the 50,000 on-line members we should have, the dues could be reduced substantially, but still not down to $5.

    The NAWCC should have a more complete set of revenue products to allow the full bundle membership option to be offered at a substantially lower price.
     
  18. hc3

    hc3 Registered User

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    Hello Mr. McIntyre, thank you for all the work you do! You missed that I said on line only membership- they don't get bulletins or any other physical thing. I am open to being corrected, but aside from the time spent logging them, how much does one- or a thousand- electronic members cost the NAWCC?
     
  19. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    What I meant to say, and thought I said, was that the creation of the publications costs much more than printing and mailing them. If they were only published on-line and were not available to anyone in printed form, the impact on the dues would be rather small. That business model is the current one for the library and museum. Those are resource centers and do not have any physical products.

    The cost of the "next member" when the organization is set up for on-line operation is very small, but if the business manages accounts for members, there are personnel and overhead costs there also. The last time I checked that was around $15 per member. I.e. there would be no financial benefit to the organization of new members if the fee were under $15. That is why we do not require persons who register on this site to be NAWCC members. We would not be able to charge enough to make it worthwhile to process the membership.I

    If you add up the costs to operate our resources, including the physical resources to house them plus management overhead and some promotion, you come up with the amount of money the NAWCC needs each year to exist.

    The resource represented by the Message Board is funded by ads shown to visitors who are not registered or logged in here and by the donations we receive each month through our donation facility.

    A substantial part of the total expenses is covered by donations from many who feel what the NAWCC does is worthwhile and needs to be supported.

    For the record these are the views of a long time member who served on the Board of Directors and was Treasurer for a short period of time but they are not the word of the organization itself.
     
  20. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    #20 Jim Haney, Jul 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
    I would like to thank all of the people involved in this National Convention.

    I have attended 26 of these and am sorry to say that this was the most disappointing one we have attended, because of lack of attendance

    The simple fact that this was the most poorly attended one we have been to was surprising.

    The NAWCC likes to be known for it's stated goal of education, however, Marts and National conventions are for selling & buying goods.

    The Education comes later as the people research what they have and add some facts to it.

    When members attend these events they should expect that the organisation has done everything possible to notify local media, get ads in local trade & antique newspapers and contact local TV & radio media so that everyone KNOWS about it.

    I did not see any " free entry" day or any effort to get new people interested in it.

    The so called Reduced membership entry fee has failed before several times and lessons should have been learned from this.

    I can attend any Coin or Gun show for a nominal entry fee of $5-10 dollars so why would anyone"pay $50+ dollars for a 3 month's membership to attend:???:

    When loyal NAWCC members spent $2000-3000, Gas, Lodging, Meals to attend, they should expect that the Convention Committee has done what is necessary that "WE' can expect people to attend.

    This weekend schedule didn't work last year in York and failed terribly in Springfield, Mass.

    I did not not talk to or see any younger "working class" people who they hoped to attract by this schedule, which wasted a Friday Mart day.

    I hope that lessons can be learned from this because it has not worked, and because of goals that don't exist, we can come together and use some common sense, which, by the way, is not so common anymore.

    o_O:rolleyes::oops::D;):)

    Edit. I was thinking that these observations may be perceived as personal, but I talked with 15 watch collectors (clock guys may feel different) and this was the consensus, so this is a report of the people who actually attended. . I can furnish names, if need be.
     
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  21. FDelGreco

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    Tom:

    What were the final numbers on attendance and tables sold? We shouldn't be jumping the gun in saying it was the most poorly attended until we have the facts.

    Frank
     
  22. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Frank, we had so many walk ins that I was not able to process them. This was my first experience doing the on-site registration and I will not likely ever repeat it. I do not deal with the pressure well enough.

    I should have the final numbers in a day or two. We had some really bad news when we got home and lost another day due to that. Life starts again tomorrow.
     
  23. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Tom:

    OK. Hope everything at home worked out.

    Frank
     
  24. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    What or Who are "working class" people?
     
  25. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Not retired, as I was told they we doing this to attract younger people who wouldn't attend if they had to take off work....... Didn't happen........
     
  26. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Thank you Jim for the clarification.

    How does the association determine whether the meeting was successful, whether their goals were met? Is it based upon whether it returns an amount of money to the National organization that is equal to or over the budget that was proposed? Is based upon attendance of new registrants, walk-ins, a "feel good" poll of some of the participants, the number of people that attend the lectures, the number of sales by those that rent table space, the social experience that they provide, etc.?

    I wonder if the association ever generates a map of the home location of the attendees and table holders (not the volunteers; only those that pay money to enter). Given that this one was in Springfield, perhaps those that did attend were predominately from East of the Mississippi because of the time travel, etc. I would expect that the table holders were mostly from East of the Mississippi because of the expense and time needed to haul clocks...watches are a different story.

    Was the location of the last National too close in time to the Eastern regionals?

    Now, for a point of clarification, I do not belong to the NAWCC. I did twice before for some years and left. Contemplating rejoining.

    So in the end, this is most likely none of my business.
     
  27. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    I ran into a number of my friends from the west coast -- Washington State and California. Others from Texas. There was one lady there from Hawaii.

    Frank
     
  28. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Can we now be told what the attendance and table count were at the Springfield convention?

    Frank
     
  29. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Frank, the reason for the slowness is not due to process, it is due to the fact that we were overwhelmed at the on site registration. Largely that was due to me not being fully prepared. Just too many irons in the fire. It took me quite while to finish "registering" the attendees from the forms after I got home.

    There were 511 tables with 497 purchased and the remainder for special functions like the Gift Shop and other special uses. The total of registered attendees was 1,010 but some of those were registered to record money received from chapters and others as donations and ads. The paid attendance was 950. Some of the volunteers had complimentary admission for about 30 more people.
     
  30. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    #30 rmarkowitz1_cee4a1, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
    I too live in MA and could not make the National this year. After > 30 years of NAWCC membership, it would have been my first!! A disappointment but maybe after reading some of the comments here, maybe not??

    What is the WWT? Is that a part of NAWCC?? Why and how are they connected to a National?? Some back scratching here?

    My appreciation to all of those who brought the National to fruitian. Maybe some lessons to be learned?

    I do general antiques shows. Granted, the vast majority are smaller 1 day typically monthly events with the local NE dealers (MA, CT, VT, ME, a smattering of upstate NY and other places) so maybe something of a comparison of apples to comquats. I also do some bigger even multiday events that draw dealers and buyers from all over the country. Seems that there may be some lessons to be learned from how they do things. They are run by professionals who earn their livelihoods promoting shows.

    Most have a pretty standard format. Here's how it works for one of the big 2 day shows I do.

    Day 1 is set-up. Spend the day setting up, making it all pretty. No one there besides dealers and staff. No buying public. The promotors have porters to help with unloading (tip them). Yep, the dealers can buy from each other. Yep, that's how that works. Most general antiques dealers need those set-up sales. Time honored tradition. Rewards dealers for all the travel, schlepping, etc.

    Day 2 there is a final early couple of hours for set-up. 2-3 hours before the regular opening, the doors open to the public for early buying. A real draw. Some shows it's rather pricey. For example, my antiques week show charges $25 for the priviledge. I say, make it more reasonable. Yep, some people won't be able to make it. But my experience is there are lots of people lined up to be the amongst the first in, so many DO NOT have a problem getting there early.

    Day 3 there is one opening time, generally a bit later than day 2. ALL promotors I know have a standard inviolate rule: THERE IS NO EARLY BREAKDOWN. IF THE SCHEDULE SAYS UNTIL, SAY 4 PM, YOU BETTER BE THERE UNTIL 4 PM!! If not, you will probably forfeit you place in the show next year. Frankly, some of my best sales have been made in that last 1/2 to 1 hour. Of course, sometimes there are exceptions. The weekend of the National I did a show in coastal ME. Many dealers were outside in tents. A massive storm was predicted to hit between 2-3 PM. The show promotors permitted everyone to "bug out" well before the 4 PM closing. Common sense.

    The educational and social activities of the National should run concomitantly or as after hours activities.

    Clear entrances and exits and signage in general. People aren't mind readers and don't like to get lost or have to search for things. One should NOT have to hunt for the right door to enter. That's nuts.

    Clear schedule and entrance fee schedule.

    Staffing and staff able to handle what is thrown at them better.

    Clear focus. One promotor, one theme, quality. Not "collectibles" and "Jolly Jim's Flea Markets" under one venue.

    Decide who your target audiences are and promote to them like crazy.

    RM
     
  31. hc3

    hc3 Registered User

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    If we pretend that every table sold was set up at some point, that's bout two people admitted per table for the entire event.

    And as others above noticed, hardly anyone under 60 in the building. Ouch.
     
  32. Jim Haney

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    Please go back and read my post #20 for an accurate account of this very disappointed effort for a National Convention. :eek::(:oops::rolleyes:o_O

    It was a total failure according to the table holders that I canvassed and myself( just PW Table holders). Sorry that is just the actual facts.

    Why, because of the insistence that it be a Saturday & Sunday show , in spite of the actual facts that people will take a day off or two for a Friday & Saturday shows, and set up Thursday afternoon.

    Most people go to church on Sundays.

    I will never attend another show with a schedule like these last 2 National Conventions.
     
  33. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    I dunno, Jim. Saturday-Sunday, Friday-Saturday, I don't think it matters if you can't get the public in the door. The fact is that, we as a closed association, simply don't have the critical mass to support a two day show. What I saw was a bunch of dealers selling to other dealers (for what few sales there were). Very few pure buyers. (I'm also a pocket watch guy, so maybe the clock guys have a different view.) Pretty soon the dealers are going to stop coming.

    We have got to let the public in, let them in from the first morning and let them in at a reasonable $10-20 entry fee. No requirement to join on the spot. If we do our work right, they will join later.
     
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  34. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    I have been lobbying to admit the public for the past 20 years with only marginal success.

    The stumbling block is finding a facility where we can do anything but a simple flea market and pay for it with the $10 admission fee and tables at a price the sellers would be willing to pay. If we could sell our current tables at $250 each it might work, but I do not think any of the clock dealers would show up, except the 15 or 20 that currently set up major displays.
     
  35. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Tom,

    Think about what you said? You are getting "0" income now and it you received $300-500 addition on a $10 head charge you would that much ahead of the game.

    With increases in attendance Table holders would be willing to pay more for tables($100) and then things would start rolling.

    The most successful "public" days shows I have attended were because the mart workers took the time to contact local antique newspapers to place ads and the local newspaper who love to do feature stories with pictures in the metro or local section of the paper.

    With less and less people available to do the work, a person in Columbia that was trained to do these basic things, like contact local media months in advance with information and follow up closer to the advent would really help insure that the basic work was being done instead of what we have now.
     
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  36. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Why would members pay more than the public to attend? If you want to have a competitive public activity admission, it will need to be much less than members currently pay. If you do not have enough income to pay the rent, you will have to eat the fixed costs.

    There are no increments here it is A or B.

    If you think that running our current format and then letting the public come in at the beginning, most of our current members will opt for the public admission. Why would they do anything else?

    The only clear distinction you can use is tables vs no tables. We do not currently charge table holders enough to pay for the location.

    To do what you are asking safely, we would need to have a high enough price and minimum table sales to pay for the event. If we did not reach our minimum table count before the contract cancellation date, the event would be cancelled. If we have meal events and other side activities, we would have to have pre-registration (besides table purchases) to cover the added cost of those activities. If we did not reach our table minimum count, and the event were cancelled, those fees would have to be refunded also along with the table fees that had been received.

    The NAWCC would need to underwrite the cancellation costs for the National Meeting. Regional meetings would need to use the same strategy or have reserves available to cover the cost of a cancelled event. (Or, one that was held but actually lost money.)

    To look at a pricing structure that is commercially viable, you could use the World Wide Traders pricing structure or the International Watch & Jewelry Guild pricing model. Those events do not intend to attract the general public, but they are open to public walk ins at their daily prices.
     
  37. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Tom,
    It is clear that the current model no longer works. To keep trying it with small 'tweaks' is an exercise in futility. We need to try a new model and, yes, that model will probably have to be underwritten by the NAWCC for the first year, in the event of a shortfall. If we don't try, I believe we will be facing the reality of a cancellation in the future under the current model.
     
  38. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    There is another alternative that @FDelGreco has mentioned a few times over the years, but we, as an organization have never been up to it.
    Frank can elaborate because I have no first hand experience, but the ornamental wood turners have annual and regional meetings, I think, that draw pretty good audiences to hear lectures and see demonstrations on their craft.

    The events are essentially funded by the presentations that are the reason people pay to come. There is in addition a mart function where goods can be traded and tools and materials purchased, but that is relatively inexpensive for both the sellers and the buyers. It is the lecture/demonstration activity that pays for the facility.

    I once was very active in computer user groups where the same model was used, but in that case most attendees were being sent by their employers and their fees and expenses paid by the "company." I was general chair for one of those where the attendance was over 4,000 and I had the pleasure of escorting Captain (later, Rear Admiral) Grace Hopper, who was our keynote speaker. The dynamics change a lot when the individual attendee views attending as a job reward rather than a business expense.
     
  39. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I really believe if the general public was fully aware of the
    National Mart and how big it was(and it was truly advertised in newspapers and media as the biggest
    clock and watch show in the USA), the place would be jammed with people.



    Rob
     
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  40. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Where would they come from? How large an area would we need to advertise to? What budget would we need for promotion?

    We actually had local channel 22 in Springfield carry a spot on the event and the reporter putting it together predicted we would be swamped with curious people.

    These perceptions may all be true, but they require planning and fund raising to make them happen. If undertaken they need success criteria and monitoring mechanisms with realistic targets for each year of the product roll out plan.

    We are probably talking about an activity that could consume a third of our annual budget to do correctly. If we were willing to spend $1M over the next three years on promotion and talent, we might get back to a 3,000+ attendee event.

    If the average income were $10/attendee, we would only be out $2,970,000. :)

    If we could come up with a program and products that the attendee would think was worth $1,000 we would break even.
     
  41. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    #41 Jim Haney, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
    Tom,
    Your post #38 is so out of touch that it is amusing to read. Come back to the real world not Computer meetings of the 1980's.:D

    Your post #40 you seem to indicate that local promoting didn't work because a seldom viewed local channel carried one "Local" "spot" on it and nobody showed up.

    Why? because it was not advertised in local Media& Print and it should have been !

    It should have been advertised in the New England area like they do Brimfield

    2019 Brimfield Show Dates – Brimfield MA | Brimfield Antique Flea Markets 2019

    It seems to me you are trying to throw up every obstacle and excuse to why it failed and are not open to any suggestions to make it work.:???:

    Most advertising in local media is free, and if the NAWCC had a trained person in Columbia, you will realize that getting the word out there would be much more professional and the results would not cost the NAWCC their budget:???:?

    You sound like an alarmist that any new approach would break the NAWCC budget??
     
  42. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Far from it Jim. I believe we need a new approach. However, flipping ideas with no analysis or plan does not contribute much. I cannot imagine that you really believe the BOD do not know and think about all the ideas that have been presented.

    Brimfield is one of the largest flea markets in the world and generates substantial revenues for the organizers who do it for profit and work hard to make a profit.

    I have heard many NAWCC members decry the association's attempts to earn money and who feel that, at best, it should be a break even operation.

    You have no obligation to propose anything with dates and numbers, but if you would, the ideas could be evaluated. Until the work is done to put together the details we do not have a proposal.
     
  43. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
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    I really enjoyed the National myself(and my family did too, I didn't have a table).
    That being said, the table holders are not
    concerned about the "large" profits that the NAWCC can make from the National
    they just want more people to come and look at what they are selling at their table.
    Activity preseeds results.

    Personally, I do not think every event needs to turn a profit for the NAWCC
    as long as the NAWCC doesn't loose money (if the members do well selling it creates a good environment).
    I go to the national because of the volume of items being sold at the
    huge mart(knowing there will be something I want for sale). It's the same reason
    why people go to large antique fairs they are looking for stuff to buy.
    If the only people who go are sellers(and a few buyers) than it defeats the point.

    I know that Tom is thinking about how to raise money for the organisation
    because without it eventually there won't be a NAWCC(as we know it) but
    before there was a museum(and an endowment to be raised) the goal was much different.
    It was about supporting the members and giving them a value for joining the
    organisation.

    I know myself I would have joined the NAWCC many
    many years before I did if I knew the organisation even existed.
    No one I know has ever heard of the Museum or the NAWCC(and they go to museums regularly).
    I myself was asked at a chapter meeting when I first joined how I was able
    to join without being invited by a member of the chapter.
    I said I just paid online and joined. They looked at me like i was nuts.
    When I joined I didn't even know what a chapter was.

    If the public doesn't know we exist then how do we expect
    to ever grow as an organisation. Opening up Marts and the National
    to the public would be a GREAT outreach program.



    PS. I do get value from the NAWCC from an educational and
    social point of view here on the forum(and the great NAWCC resources) I'm just speaking here about
    the Marts and the public's participation.



    Rob
     
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  44. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Things to think about:

    If you want to attract a younger crowd think about the fact that the younger generation may have families and a somewhat limited budget.
    Thus, one might want to hold a large regional coupled with a National Meeting in a location where the family may be vacationing. Hold it
    in a location like Boston, Orlando, Washington DC, San Diego, Denver, Dallas, Seattle

    Springfield Mass. is too far from Boston for some people and it does not offer vacationing families much to do. Hold it just outside of
    Boston where one can ride the T to the event, at the same time family members can explore the historical and other events in the City
    may attract more to an event.

    Travel from the West Coast to the East Coast is expensive; whether one drives or goes by air. The cost of hotel rooms in a decent
    hotel are increasing fast. I suspect there were not many younger members that made this trip.

    Woodworkers (case design, carvings), Music Boxes (movements,..), ..... are there any overlaps that can be exploited?
     
  45. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Since sales have shifted so dramatically to eBay and other auction venues, and several have suggested that our current model is becoming obsolete, perhaps the emphasis of the National should be steered away from the mart and more toward our educational mandates. What if the National meeting were to pair with the Time Symposium, with the mart on the side? I would think that the synergy of combining the two may be a benefit to both.
     
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  46. PatH

    PatH National Program Chair
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    Rob,
    Total sidebar, but this comment might have come from the time when you had to be sponsored by a member to join the NAWCC. As you said, now we can just fill out the form and join to benefit from all the great assets and opportunities the organization has to offer.
     
  47. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    The Toy Train Collectors require you to have a sponsor to be admitted as a probationary member. If anyone complains about a probationary member, they are out. I always thought that was a little harsh. Maybe there is more fraud and deception in toy trains. :^
     
  48. FDelGreco

    FDelGreco Registered User
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    Jerry:

    We actually tried something like this in 2009. (Date is a little fuzzy.) We held a symposium at a hotel in York. The next day the mid-eastern regional was held in York down the road a few miles at the fairgrounds. The attendance at the symposium was "normal" -- about 100 people. The regional was typical. I had hoped that the proximity would have boosted the symposium attendance significantly, but it did not.

    Frank
     
  49. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    I believe Jerry is suggesting they be combined into one event. Members paying the 'high dollar' admission would get into both symposium and mart activities. Those wishing to just enter the mart would be able to do so for a lower fee, maybe $20. But, I don't want to put words into Jerry's mouth. This is how I think it would need to be done.
     
  50. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Thanks, Dave. You are correct. I was thinking of one combined event rather than piggybacking two events. You would not need two organizing committees, two budgets, two venues. ... and I think you have a good idea about a discount for mart only. I hadn't thought that far.
     

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