collecting worn watches

[CentreKeystone]

I collect watches which were designed for operators of electric interurban cars. These watches were working watches worn nearly every day. It is rare to see one without signs of significant use. Cracked dials and replaced parts are common. Personally I like that fact. It shows a connection to their owners and their railways. To me they are more valuable than a pristine example.

Do others feel the same way? Firearms collectors will significantly reduce the value of guns which have had their patina removed. On Antiques Roadshow owners are commonly warned not to refinish antiques. Their value will be ruined.

 

[grtnev]

Do others feel the same way? Firearms collectors will significantly reduce the value of guns which have had their patina removed. On Antiques Roadshow owners are commonly warned not to refinish antiques. Their value will be ruined.

My opinion is that:

1) Depends on what the “vintage” item is, and
2) Personal preference

Restoring vintage pocket watches, in most cases, will increase their value. There obviously will be exceptions. If your goal is to collect well used pocket watches and display them in their “work clothes” that is absolutely great.

My personal preference regarding my watch collection is to repair/restore as I deem necessary to bring a watch back to the level I desire. Just my personal preference.

Same thing is true with my “other hobby” - ownership/restoration/on going maintenance of two US built classic cars - a 1966 Chevy Chevelle (my grandparents car) and a 1969 Chevy Camaro (I’ve owned since Nov 1991).

From a market perspective, although both cars are very collectible, neither is special - just one of thousands that Chevy built.

So in my case, restoring both cars only added value as opposed to taking value away.

This is the key - knowing what you have and whether or not a restoration will adversely affect its value. Beyond that it simply becomes personal preference.

Richard

 

[mikeh]

To me they are more valuable than a pristine example.

I don't know that would go that far, but I realize it may have been a figure of speech. To me, honest use is to be expected and I am not put off by it as long as it is priced accordingly. Abuse is another issue of course.

 

[musicguy]

I collect watches I can wear and use myself and enjoy picking
up and holding them in my hands on a regular basis. If they were pristine
I'm not sure if I would feel as comfortable touching and using them.
But in contrast, I do want the best examples of
the used watches that I buy, and do want them cased and running
as well.


Rob

 

[1908]

Personally speaking I'm not overly concerned if the case has wear on it but I do like a mint as possible dial and a clean working movement in a pocket watch. One of my most recent purchases was a 1913 Waltham Traveler that was cheap to buy, runs and has a mint dial but the gold plating has worn quite heavily on the rear case cover, but I love it because it looks its age. Don't get me wrong, fully mint examples are a very nice pocket watch to have but I agree with Rob, I too would be nervous holding it in my hand.

Stephen

 

[Dr. Jon]

Depends on the watch.

I like and buy watches that worked. Railroad watches are a good example.


I am nmore fussy about dress and fancy watches. They were to be treated carefully and I do not buy them with signs of abuse.

 

[topspin]

I'm happy enough if my watches are cased and running. Bonus points for an interesting / pretty dial.

I am aware that factors such as originality and condition can affect resale value, in the same way that they presumably affected the price I paid. But since I didn't buy my watches as investments, I don't need to care.

A watch with a cheap-looking or beaten-up case, is for me a much better bet as an everyday or carry watch, than the 1-in-100 with oodles of pristine shiny gold.

 

[CentreKeystone]

A few years ago the conservator of the NAWCC Museum told be that they had been given a collection of worn railroad watches. They were not in a condition to display at the museum but he was planning to create a traveling exhibit of them. The first place would have been in Strasburg at the PA RR Museum. I thought that was an excellent idea and the well used watches would be in a very appropriate place. I do not know if this was ever done.

 

[darrahg]

If it wasn't for non-working and well used watches (and I do not mean abused), I would have no fun at all. I mainly enjoy working on them over collecting, however, as time has gone by I now do both and prefer the more pristine ones during my collecting spells. I really appreciate what some of my watches have gone through just to survive and how others scarcely came out of a drawer for use. All watches in various conditions have a purpose.

Value comes in to play only when one is buying for a decent value and selling for as small a loss as possible.

 

[TaborClock]

I collect Walthams, especially the 1857s. Most are very worn and in need of repair. Any case involving gold or silver is wiped down and left alone. Silveroids I will fix dents and polish up. Movements get the standard clean and service and put in running order. They are what they are. Nice hobby at 70...

 

[Clint Geller]

How I feel about wear on a watch depends a lot on the watch. The two biggest parts of my own collection are my American Watch Company Grade collection and my Civil War provenance collection. In the case of my AWCo Grade collection, I like my watches to resemble new condition as closely as I am able to get them. That said, I am a realist, and I accept minor imperfections and wear on cases when I need to.

On the other hand, in the case of my Civil War provenance collection, I actually prefer to see evidence that the watch likely was used by its historic owner, rather than merely acquired, thrown in a drawer somewhere, and forgotten about. So wear, to a point, does not bother me on provenanace watches at all. I do cringe, however, at the thought of a bullet-struck watch, and I have seen a few.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

I prefer my watches to be in excellent condition, but I am perfectly comfortable with them bearing evidence of prior use, such as nicely done inscriptions or monograms. Many collectors bristle at that.

I generally collect only the highest grades of watches, examples of which often are scarce. Sometimes I must accept excessive wear to get a scarce item. Here are three examples.

There aren't a lot of Ami LeCoultre rattrapantes with diablotines out there. I am happy to have obtained this nice 18k example, despite the heavy toll wear has taken on the monogram.



Likewise, L. Huguenin tandem-wind rattrapantes with diablotines aren't every day items. I had to accept heavy wear on this 18k example to get one.



Finally, I would never have collected a watch with as bad a dial as the watch shown below, if it weren't a likely one-of-a-kind ultra-thin18k Jules Jurgensen spring detent chronometer.

 

[pmurphy]

Finally, I would never have collected a watch with as bad a dial as the watch shown below, if it weren't a likely one-of-a-kind ultra-thin18k Jules Jurgensen spring detent chronometer.

View attachment 748353

Your Jules Jurgenson watch is exquisite! Can that be restored without too much difficulty and expense?

Anyway I do have a couple of pocket watches that I believe would be good candidates for restoration but as of this writing everything watch-related is being put on hold due to an upcoming surgery. I kind of regret not getting into this hobby sooner than waiting until I was almost sixty years old but better late than never.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Pmurphy, best wishes for a speedy recovery. Thanks for the kind words about my JJ chronometer. Fortunately, the watch is in very good condition apart from the faded, weathered dial. See Unusual Pocket Chronometer #1 -- Ultra-Thin, Free-Sprung, Spherical Hairspring, Male Key-Wound.

I won't be having any restoration done to the dial. From sad experience, I've found that dial restorations, apart from "soaking" enamel dials, almost always are disappointing. If a watch dial is bad enough to warrant restoration, I've found that the better approach is to replace it with a good, original, unrestored dial of the identical design. That's fairly easy to do for many American watches. For example, in November 2007, I bought a 14k Hamilton 918 for $309 (oh, for those good old days) solely because it had the same dial as my 18k Hamilton 922MP, but in much better condition. I swapped dials and sold the Hamilton 918 with the "bad" dial for $283 within a month of purchasing it.

Before the Dial Swap


After the Dial Swap


If I could find a replacement dial for my JJ chronometer, I'd certainly consider swapping it in, but I'll never find one. The JJ appears to be a one-of-a-kind watch. I'll leave its dial as is.

 

[musicguy]

If a watch dial is bad enough to warrant restoration, I've found that the better approach is to replace it with a good, original, unrestored dial of the identical design. That's fairly easy to do for many American watches.

Rob

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

Rob, since you liked my last post, here's an even better example of dial replacement: Some years ago, I was lucky enough to be able to buy a rare aluminum Illinois, 1 of 3 known examples. See Aluminum Illinois Grade 525. Its dial was too damaged for me to tolerate.



I had the dial refinished. I never liked the refinished dial. Refinishers almost always botch the font on the maker's name.



I searched and searched for an original dial of the same design, before realizing that the dial I needed was on one of my other Illinois. I swapped dials and sold the other Illinois. Now my aluminum Illinois looks like this.

 

[179]

Ethan, I do not have a college degree, but I did spend many years in the School of Hard Knocks. One thing I have learned when discussing watches is I try not to use never and always ,because they are absolutes . About the time you use one, never made this or always came this way, someone will show you one.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

I'll keep my eyes open. Maybe an identical JJ dial will show up.