Clockmakers Hall of Shame

[Jerry Kenney]

Message Board Note: If you repair a "bodge" try to include before and after pics, to show how it should have been done.
--Thanks in advance for your help!!
Message Board Administration


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I am making a Power Point presentation titled "The Clockmakers Hall of Shame".

It will be a collection of pics of botched, bodgered and totally improper repair jobs including badly punched pivot holes, solder disasters, including corrosion caused by not removing acid flux. Well you get the idea.

I will be using this as a program at our next chapter meeting. Also I will make it available to everyone as a download.
I already have quite a few pics and want to add to them so please add any pics to this thread.

I think this could be a fun and educational topic. Get those digital cameras ready.

Cheers,
Jerry

 

[Scottie-TX]

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/bbv2/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=14;gtid=220080
See topic a little further down, "Who Needs Bushings . . . . . ." for existing fodder for your presentation.

 

[Dick Feldman]

Jerry,
If you email me at fourburros@AOL.com and let me know what your USPS address is, I will search my photo archives and load some bad repairs on a CD. I will then send them to you via USPS as I can send higher quality pictures on a CD. If I resort to using the net to send pictures, I am afraid the down/upload time will be lengthy and the quality very poor.
Use a subject on the email like Clockmakers hall of shame so I do not send it to never-never land as spam.
I will likely have a chance to do that this weekend.
When you have your presentation done, I would like to have a copy on a CD as I only have a phone/modem connection. Let me know what you need to copy your presentation on a CD and send it.
Best Regards,
Dick

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Scottie,

Thanks, I saw these, that is what gave me the idea to start this project.


Jerry

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Dick,

Thanks for the offer, address has been sent by email.
I had hundreds of these pics but lost after a hard drive crash, I had a few on another computer that were saved.

Cheers,
Jerry

 

[clockfixer]

Hi Jerry,
I have this Ithaca # 2 bank regulator.... well sort of anyway. Take a look! This was found in the basement of an old clock repairers shophttps://mb.nawcc.org/. at least it wasnt thrown out!

Mark

 

[Pat Quillinan]

Jerry,

If you have a crashed hard drive with info on it that you need, it often can be recoverd. I'd be willing to put my IT guys on it if you still have the drive. Let me know. Same subject on e-mail 'Clockmaker's hall of shame' so it doesn't get sent to the trash bin. pqzymrgy@aol.com.

PQ

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Mark,
Nice clock, what is the third hole in dial for?

Jerry

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Jerry,

If you have a crashed hard drive with info on it that you need, it often can be recoverd. I'd be willing to put my IT guys on it if you still have the drive. Let me know. Same subject on e-mail 'Clockmaker's hall of shame' so it doesn't get sent to the trash bin. pqzymrgy@aol.com.

PQ

Thanks Pat,

Very nice of you to offer. just one of the many benefits of being a member, helping each other.
Will contact you off line.

Jerry

 

[oldticker]

I am making a Power Point presentation titled "The Clockmakers Hall of Shame".

It will be a collection of pics of botched, bodgered and totally improper repair jobs including badly punched pivot holes, solder disasters, including corrosion caused by not removing acid flux. Well you get the idea.

I will be using this as a program at our next chapter meeting. Also I will make it available to everyone as a download.
I already have quite a few pics and want to add to them so please add any pics to this thread.

I think this could be a fun and educational topic. Get those digital cameras ready.

Cheers,
Jerry

I don't think your heading is quite right. You see, from my experience, a botched job was not done by a clockmaker. A clockmaker wouldn't do such a poor job of making or repairing a clock.
Someone who THOUGHT he was a clock repairer might do a bad repair and I've even come across watchmakers who do a poor repair on clocks.

When you think about it anyone who is qualified or experienced and taught properly will never botch a repair because they have the knowledge and professionalism to do the job in the correct manner even if this means a lot of work.

I think you should review your heading to something like "Amateur repair attempts" or Amateur clock repairs".
I don't think clockmakers would be happy about having a "Hall of shame" to be honest. I take a lot of pride in my work and like to tell people I'm a clockmaker. I honestly don't think calling clockmakers "botchers" is appropriate at all.

I hope you will consider my points of view.

 

[doc_fields]

I agree with oldticker. Maybe "Clock Botchers Hall of Shame" It's just a shame that some call themselves 'clockmakers' when nothing could be further from the truth. Rather like 'shade-tree mechanics', huh?. FWIW..............doc

 

[Sooth]

I forgot about a few more that I have in my "to fix" pile...

This one, is my aunt's clock. She asked me if I could clean it and fix it for her. She liked the tone of it, although it is HORRIFYINGLY out of tune (almost painfully so), and the previous "repairman" fitted a new bezel that was too small, so he mangled and butchered the entire dial surround.

Worst yet, is that the door won't even shut properly.

https://mb.nawcc.org/

It's like that ALL the way around.

***

This next one is SUPPOSED to be a bautiful 1/4 striking Peerless (German - high quality make) clock. However, a previous repairman, modified the movement, making it ting tang the hours, and doing one ting tang on the 1/2. To do this, one entire piece (a cam wheel for the 1/4s) was entirely removed, and several pins added to the minute hand shaft. The 1/4 snail (missing) should be attached to this piece:

https://mb.nawcc.org/

https://mb.nawcc.org/

https://mb.nawcc.org/

https://mb.nawcc.org/

And for no apparent reason, the hour hand snail was also butchered.

https://mb.nawcc.org/

https://mb.nawcc.org/

https://mb.nawcc.org/

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Oldticker,

Look at it this way. Some of the pics I have of botched jobs were done by clockmakers that has been repairing clocks for many years. (no one I know personally) Hence he should feel shame.

It also takes a clockmaker to mend the damage done, its a shame he has to spend extra time to the correct the damage. :bang:

Jerry

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Here is another I ran across. No explanationation necessary. Picture tell it all.

Jerry

 

[Sooth]

Oh sweet LORD.

 

[Tom Kloss]

I'm at a loss for words with that one.

Tom

“Sometimes you really don’t know if your being rewarded or punished”

 

[Kevin W.]

Here is a recent purchase.I can,t complain as the price was good and the case is in decent shape.probaly a replacement tablet.The ogee on the right.
Also would anyone have a idea as to age and maker of this clock.There is no label and i see nothing on the movement either.
Don,t you just love solder and the wonderful bushing job??

 

[Sooth]

Veritas, that is a VERY VERY unusual movemnt. I have never seen one like it, or even one that's in any way similar. The count wheel is incredibly bizarre, and I haven't seen any movements with a plain front plate like this either. They usually have the typical "toombstone" cutout, or something similar.

I also haven't seen any ogee movements with such thin wheel edges, with a fine line engraved along them. The wheels on typical movements are usually bulky and ridged (but not always).

I have, however, seen that shape of escape wheel bridge. I'll have a quick look at my files. The name JJ Beals seems to be popping out at me. Or maybe Smith something...

Nope, I've got nothing similar, but it seems to me the only VAGUELY similar one I've seen may have been from a New York maker.

As for the tablet, it looks like the tablets I've often seen on very late (1880ish) Jerome clocks, but I believe it was also offered as a reproduction glass, and it could just be an older replacement one.

 

[Kevin W.]

Sooth, what jumped out at me that was odd, is the winding arbours are so high up.
Wish i knew who made this.It is a peculiar movement.

 

[harold bain]

Veritas, I cannot recall seeing an OG movement with the wind arbors above the motion works like yours. Very unusual. Is there a dial with it?

 

[Sooth]

Oh wow. I totally glazed over that small bit of OBVIOUS info. And yeah, I have DEFINITELY never seen an ogee with the arbors above the centre.

It might be extremely rare.

 

[Kevin W.]

Sooth, I will repost some pics of this ogee in the clocks section.It may get seen better there.
It looks very strange to me.I bought this for 50 bucks at my ch 111 meeting last sunday.

 

[Thyme]

Here is another I ran across. No explanationation necessary. Picture tell it all.

Jerry

Maybe sheet metal screws were on sale that week?

It's the 'one size fits all' approach. I remember seeing a muffler commercial on TV several years ago. A customer asks the repair guy (a Mr. Badwrench type) in his shop "is that the right muffler for my car?" To which the repair guy replies: "we'll MAKE it fit."

 

[Kevin W.]

Harold the dial is a replacement, so i did not show the photo of it.If it would help i will post a photo.
Very unusual ogee.

 

[harold bain]

Veritas I have found you a manufacturer for your movement!! It is a 30 hour upside down movement by Welch, Brown, and Co., Bristol Conn, 1841-1843. I found it in Kenneth D Roberts book, The Contributions of Joseph Ives to Connecticut Clock Technology, page 221. No case is shown with the movement. Too bad your clock has no label, as I think it may be quite a rare find.

 

[Kevin W.]

Wow Harold, too cool.I do wish it had a label too.It would really make the clock a lot more valuable.I never heard of a upside down movement before.I will google a search for this and see what comes up.
Many thanks Harold.

 

[harold bain]

Veritas, start a separate thread with this clock so others might notice and comment. I would be interested in finding out more about this movement and the shortlived company that made it.

 

[Kevin W.]

No problem, i will do this.

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Here is another, a little desk clock. I guess if a little oil is good then a lot of oil is better.:bang:

 

[shutterbug]

Wow! I think it might be illegal to dispose of that much oil in the conventional way. You probably should take it to a service station for recycling

 

[shutterbug]

Here's a couple of cute repairs for your collection:

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Hi Shutterbug,
Thanks for the contribution. Can you explain the top pic?
What is the piece of steel with teeth and why is it there.

 

[shutterbug]

I can't remember exactly, Jerry. I think it was soldered on the other side, supporting the arbor instead of the pivot. What it is? Good question LOL.

 

[Thyme]

I can't remember exactly, Jerry. I think it was soldered on the other side, supporting the arbor instead of the pivot. What it is? Good question LOL.

Oh, I think I know (maybe).

There was (is still?) a phrase that became popular in the last few years: "Value added."

That's what it must be. Anything added on must be considered valuable. Right?

 

[shutterbug]

Did you notice that the added piece in the second picture had been punched? I'm trying to visualize why a later repairman would add to an already bad repair?!

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Here is a good one.
I wonder how much this person's time is worth.
The chance of this breaking and causing serious damage is very high.
Just a reminder, post any pics you have similar to this.
I will put them all on a website when I have enough.
PS: I am saving all the "good" ones for later.

 

[shutterbug]

That one is actually shown in a book. I'll have to find it. Obviously an old book .

 

[jkfabulos]

Here is a unique repair to a self winding three pole rotor movement.

 

[leeinv66]

Here is a good one.
I wonder how much this person's time is worth.
The chance of this breaking and causing serious damage is very high.

Jerry, I see this type of spring repair from time to time in clocks repaired during WW2 here. New springs were just not available as the steel was being use for military purposes. While a new spring is ideal, done right, these repairs seem to last quite well.

Cheers
Peter

 

[Jim D.]

This poor Waterbury kitchen came to me for repairs from a local dealer. it was so greasy and crudy I gave it a quick bath to see what I had. Talk about a surprise! Five soldering repairs on one movement and it runs! Pulled it out of the bath and it took right off!

It looks like crap but .......

Jim D.

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/pictures//file-PICT0001.JPG

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/pictures//file-PICT0003.JPG

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/pictures//file-PICT0005.JPG

http://www.nawcc-mb.com/pictures//file-PICT0006.JPG

 

[tfa]

A count rack from an old tall case bell strike movement. Looks like a rack was affixed to a makeshift (very makeshift) shaft, then soldered to the original tail. Talk about flux corrosion! The sad part is that no solder was needed anywhere on this piece, especially at the tube ends, where it should have been flanged and pressed for adjustability.

 

[Jerry Kenney]

A count rack from an old tall case bell strike movement. Looks like a rack was affixed to a makeshift (very makeshift) shaft, then soldered to the original tail. Talk about flux corrosion! The sad part is that no solder was needed anywhere on this piece, especially at the tube ends, where it should have been flanged and pressed for adjustability.

That is another one someone should be ashamed of. Like you say it could have been flared and peened a little to tighten. Solder is sometimes a only choice but it should not be seen and the flux should be throughly removed by simply washing with a little baking soda to neutralize the acid.

Keep them coming, these pics should make an interesting presentation and hopefully make someone think twice before committing such an act.

 

[bchaps]

Jerry...here are two more I feel should be in your special "Hall of Sham" or was that Shame?

The first concerns marking the plates. We are professional clock repair people and should be continually raising the bar for ourselves. This photo shows how the "Fixit" person felt it was necessary to mark the pivot holes that needed bushing. If they are bad enough to bush, it isn't necessary to mark the plates...you should be able to see it!




The second photo demonstrates how NOT to apply a friction bushing. I know the books all tell us to file the bushing flush with the plates. I readily admit, my bushing work may occasionally stand proud of the plate by .1 or .2mm. But this one is ridiculous! I can't wait to see how much of the bushing is actually held in the plates. An extended bushing like this is prone to developing a "key hole" inside the pivot hole and that can be a s

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Good pics, I see this quite often. I use a magic marker to identify hole and side where the wear is. It comes off during cleaning.

The proud pivots I don't see too often except when a pivot has broken and the arbor turned back to make a new one. A long bushing will be installed to capture the pivot. I agree, this will also create a keyhole when it wears will create more problems.

Keep the pics coming, wish more people had digital cameras, they sure come in handy for pics like this and when working on unusual complicated movements. I had assembly pics on over a hundred movements but lost all in a hard drive crash.

Backing up weekly now.

 

[Jerry Kenney]

Hey Guys & Gals,
Check out this one. Not only would the solder put escape wheel out of poise but look at the tooth at the 1:00 position.
This should give a unusual printout on Microset connected to computer and set to record every beat.
Assuming it will even run.

Keep these pics coming, I have over a hundred already.

 

[bchaps]

I realize some repair people don't feel "pretty" is important, but we should avoid making it "pretty ugly"! It appears a careless fixit person attempted top file protruding bushings, but really did a number this polished plate.
Bill

 

[doc_fields]

Bill;
That's why pivot cutters are made. I bought all five that Bergeon makes, and I really like using them. They are spendy but well worth owning. I've made a few bodges like this in my earlier days.....this one is more uglier.............doc

Post script: I did learn to put freezer tape down where my file would be stroking, and that saved any future bodges. After taking down the bush, I'd remove the tape and cleanup any residue with a solvent.

 

[Thyme]

Jerry...here are two more I feel should be in your special "Hall of Sham" or was that Shame?

The first concerns marking the plates. We are professional clock repair people and should be continually raising the bar for ourselves. This photo shows how the "Fixit" person felt it was necessary to mark the pivot holes that needed bushing. If they are bad enough to bush, it isn't necessary to mark the plates...you should be able to see it!

Far be it for me to defend this sort of thing, but you didn't look closely enough or think as an amateur repairer / reassembler does.

The scratch marks are "x" and "y", most likely indended to assist in reassembly.

(Admittedly, with there being only two possibilities, he must have been a total dimwit.)

 

[Thyme]

I realize some repair people don't feel "pretty" is important, but we should avoid making it "pretty ugly"! It appears a careless fixit person attempted top file protruding bushings, but really did a number this polished plate.
Bill



Simple economics: cheapness = a larger profit margin.

Using a file is much cheaper than buying fine abrasives. Sandpaper wears out, and costs a few dollars to replace. With a file, one tool does it all. (Poorly.)

Oh, silly me to think he owned a file. It was probably done with a pocket knife!

 

[harold bain]

Would have been much better to either leave the bushing protruding, or cut them down before installing them