Clock stops

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by bangster, Sep 5, 2019.

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  1. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    Could be very relevant if the old spring failed suddenly. Look for tooth damage and bent arbor in the bottom end. Can we assume that the replacement spring is the correct width and thickness? You only have it partly wound with the clips in place so the working coils are spaced apart and are more likely to snag on click rivet ends and the end of the click spring.

    RC
     
  2. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Feb 22, 2010
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    That could explain possible, as yet, undetected damage to the Time Train Dr. Bangster.
     
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  3. fbicknel

    fbicknel Registered User

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    Ah ha! That would cause some problems with the time train. So many suggestions. One that might help in addition is testing each wheel individually AND with its predecessor neighbor installed. So once with T4 and once with T3 and T4, for example. Test upright and face up and face down. This will turn up any binding due to misalignment of pivot holes as well as teeth that do not mesh right.

    While you have it apart, might as well.
     
  4. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Which spring would be an easy detail to get switched amidst such chaos. I've got a lot of clocks stored on low shelves just inches off the floor in my basement shop. I don't want to see any mysterious water down there, ever! :eek:

    Although it makes a bit more sense, the spring update doesn't really help us discover where the power loss occurs. We just know that it has occurred and disappeared without any corrective measures. That's one of the worst kinds of Gremlins. It can pop up again and most likely it will do so at the worst possible time. Remember what they say about Gremlins; Don't get 'em wet and don't feed 'em after midnight, but I would definitely expose this one to plenty of bright light! :cool:

    We'll be anxiously watching bangster.

    Good luck with it.

    Regards,

    Bruce
     
  5. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
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    Even though Bangster hasn’t figured out the solution yet (but I’m sure he will) i thought I’d post a big thank-you to all of you—first for Bangster for the post in the first place, and then for the rest of you for your suggestions and ideas.

    I’m going to print this thread out and file it where i can find it after Bangster arrives at the solution, because I’m going to need to refer to it someday. I’ve had episodes of ‘what’s hanging this thing up now’ but so far have been able to find the offending area or misassembled whatever it was...but I know that someday i’ll encounter something after reassembly that won’t let me figure it out—just because it can!

    I’ve seen more good help and ideas on this thread that are worth keeping for the aggravations that come up after reassembly, so thank you all again!

    And Bangster, I’m pulling for you. You’ll figure it out!:)

    John

    ...clocks can be cussed critters...
    :emoji_tired_face:
     
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  6. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    Bangs,

    I've had several 'dog' clocks where a slight chamfer to the inside of the pivot holes cured the problem, as already mentioned by Tom and RC.

    It's a long thread and saw the high speed test mentioned but I didn't see the 'slow roll' test mentioned. It's good, maybe the best, to spot marginal/intermittent power problems.

    You probably know yhe drill. Get the bare train turning with the absolute minimum of power while stopping it repeatedly with a finger on the e-wheel rim. It will go and stop many times then suddenly it will not go. When this happens, there is binding somewhere, even if it's ever so slight. Looking at the position of all the wheels and nudging here and there will eventually locate the problem. Bent pivot, radiused pivot shoulder grabbing, tapered pivot grabbing, worn trundles, bent arbor, just about any defect can be located.

    I remember a post from about a year ago (104 hits) where the problem was eventually traced to a tiny imperfection on an E-wheel pivot.

    Good luck, Willie
     
  7. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    What RJ mentioned is pretty much what I was suggesting in post #30 above too. Often your ears are the best problem catchers. Use a stethoscope or beat amplifier if needed ;)
     
  8. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    That's a pretty neat idea SB. I have a timer/amplifier and never thought to use it in such a manner. :thumb:

    It has occurred to me that there may not be just one single source to the problem, but a whole host of inefficient power transfers in the Time Train which occasionally align with one another to rob enough power so that none is left to reach the escapement.

    Use all senses*; sight, sound and "feel" to check each gear separately and in pairs as Frank and others have suggested. Each wheel, tooth, pinion, pivot, bushing/pivot hole, arbor and shoulder from the Main wheel to the Verge (including impulse angles and crutch). If a gear mesh doesn't feel smooth, there's an excessive power loss. Perhaps not enough to stop the train then and there, but a loss none-the-less. See if it can be addressed before moving on to the next power transfer.

    *(Okay, smell and taste will only come into play when it's time to put this thing down so you can go get something to eat.)

    We may all be better Clock Whisperers by the time this is over.

    How does Dr. bangster keep coming up with these terrific puzzles for us to learn on?

    Are you just lucky or what, bangster? :chuckling:
     
  9. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    Friends, please note that there are two problems here. Problem 1: What made it misbehave in the first place? Problem 2: What made it stop misbehaving?
    Right now it's running normally. I've tried various maneuvers to make it misbehave, without success...except once. I moved it slightly, to wind the strike side. It stopped, and went back to the original problem. Tick a few, then stop between teeth. T3 locked, no move forward, EW locked, no move forward. Problem persisted when I let it advance just one or two teeth. Predecessor (possible cause) was a slight movement of position, nothing more. Gave pendulum a healthy swing, and it started running normally. And hasn't stopped.

    I can't know what made it start running normally until I know what made it misbehave. And I can think of no way to find that out as long as it's running normally. Y'all have given me a bushel of good advice where to look for the cause of Problem 1. But I'm not going to tear it down and look for stuff until I have an idea what I'm looking for. For all I can tell right now, what caused Problem 1 may have gone away permanently.
    So I'll continue for a little while trying to make the misbehavior come back. If I can't, I'm going to hang it on a regular test stand, and let it run for a week or so. If It continues to run OK, I'll stick it in the case and Hope. If it continues to run that way, I'll let the owner take his little darling home. With my usual 1-year warranty. Cain't think of any better battle plan than that.

    But I intend to save this entire thread on a flash drive. There's too much good stuff in it to let it drift away into the archives.

    ==============
    The drywall man has finished repairs and painting. To paint he had to take all my clocks off the wall and lay them in whatever open floor space he could find. By Monday, paint should be dry and he can hang them back up. Then Tuesday, the carpet crew will come, clear everything back out of the work room, and lay carpet. Then they, or some crew, will put all the furniture back where it goes. And then I will be all the way back in bidness. None too soon, for me. :)
     
  10. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    Hey bangster. Personally, I would run it at least two winding cycles on the Test Stand if it continues not to misbehave (while you're looking).

    I hope that your new carpeting isn't very good at hiding small parts. It can be tough finding them on a hard floor. I speak from experience... :whistle:
     
  11. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    I had one recently that would run on my stand for two weeks without issue, but would not run in the case. The solution to that one ended up being a thin shim inserted under the back plate (actually a penny). I presume the great wheel was somehow touching the mounting board. After tightening it up, there was no danger of it slipping out. It didn't lower the hands much at all either.
     

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