Clock repair rates.

Kevin W.

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Are we allowed to discuss what we charge for clock repair rates?
 
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shutterbug

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Sure. Not everyone would be willing to reveal their rates, but if they want to they can. No rule broken.
 

Salsagev

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May I ask about reasonable rates for hobbyists? It sure is different because there are not shop utility costs (working from home) and no schedule. I would think a hobbyist is the same, if not being able to make, quality repairs as a shop would.
 

POWERSTROKE

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I’m started to pick up steam myself.
I rebuild a lot of clocks, am starting to get a lot of traction for repairs. I too work at home out of my basement. I have no idea what to charge really. Warranty etc.
 

Ed O'Brien

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Feel your market. If you charge too little (assuming you are correctly providing quality service) you either find it not profitable (especially with a troublesome clock or warranty issues) or you diminish the true value of the service. Too much and prospective customers will decline.
 

MuseChaser

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....If you charge too little (assuming you are correctly providing quality service) you either find it not profitable (especially with a troublesome clock or warranty issues) or you diminish the true value of the service. ....
I've been hesitant to chime in here on this topic, because I don't want to offend the very same people that have been incredibly helpful and kind to me, sharing their expertise gladly and willingly. They are THE reason I joined NAWCC..I wanted to do SOMETHING that showed how much I appreciate the help. None of what I am about to type should be taken as an indictment in any way of what anyone decides to charge; capitalism is the best system we've come up in real life so far, and charging what people are willing to pay is absolutely appropriate.

Now..to the quote above. Who exactly determines the "true value" of the service... The person electing to pay for the service, or the person providing it? I would suggest it's the person electing to pay for it. The craftsman/professional can place whatever value he/she'd like to on their time and skills, but unless people are willing and able to pay it, it has no validity. Of course, if one is "the only game in town" or succeeds in convincing all other practitioners to charge similarly, then the customer has less choice, and thereby less effect, on the "value" of the service.

As I said in another thread, I am a musician by trade. Not a weekend warrior/rock band member... a schooled musician with advanced graduate degrees performing in orchestras, professional Equity musical productions, and backing up jazz and classical artists you've all heard of. It takes AT LEAST ten years, and that's being extremely optimistic, of training and practice to begin to even be considered barely employable in my field, and $5000 to $100,000 in your instrument(s) and equipment (dependent upon many things including instrument, use, venue, etc... it's possible to spend slightly less or a lot more..). We have a union, ostensibly to protect our wages, but the reality is that we do not provide a service that anyone truly needs, as least physically. With so much available "free" on the internet and the majority of the populace interested in consuming mostly computer-generated pop fare, many venues simply choose not to hire live musicians at union required rates, and hire non-union players. Union players are prohibited from working with non-union players; in some cases, the union is actually PREVENTING good musicians from obtaining work.

In my niche areas of music, the best players would command the best pay, and would always be working, union or no union. That's as it should be...the value of the service would be, at least significantly if not wholly, determined by the quality of the service...and also by the desirability. Pop musicians catering to the least common denominator will always grab much larger paychecks, simply because they have a much larger pool to mine. Do they provide a greater "true value?" Are they better, "true" musicians? I would say unequiovocally no/not....with the equivocation that that is my opinion based upon a lifetime of experience and knowledge in and of the field.

I have not charged for any clock repairs I've done for others, and I have repaired two clocks that the owners had just spent several hundred dollars at a local clockshop to have fixed. The next statement I am about to make is the one I was most worried about, but what the heck... I've come this far. I am good enough as a clock repair person after six months of self-study, practice, and help here, and with a few hundred bucks worth of tools and supplies, to be worth something to folks as a clock repair person. I am also a passable/employable car mechanic, and it took me a similar amount of time to get to that point (albeit with more expenditure in tools). Now, just so there is NO misunderstanding, I realize full well I am NOT even close to mastering clock repair (or auto repair) and know that there is a LOT I cannot do and much, much left to learn...and more equipment/tools to purchase. Even if I did charge, charging the same rates as most of the highly skilled and experienced folks here would be ridiculous for me at my current skill level. However, given the work I've recently seen and rectified, I COULD.

The fact that I could charge $90/hr for fixing clocks or cars after a year of study or practice but the musician's union sets our rates at approximately a third of that, give or take dependent upon engagement type, and it takes ten years of study, practice, and experience to get there....well..... let's just say that we do NOT determine the true value of our service. Those paying for it do. The value of a necessary service (plumbing, car repair, surgery) will always be higher than elective services. Where clock repair, and niche music performance, is in that spectrum is up to the consumer more than the provider.

I am considering, eventually, opening my doors as a public clock repair service, but not until I have acquired a lot more experience and capabilities personally and equipment-wise. If and when I do, since I don't need the money, one of the motivations to do so would be to provide the service at a rate that all folks could afford. The vast majority if the fifty-five clocks I've rescued and brought back to life simply weren't exceptional enough clocks to be worth sinking hundreds of dollars into for repair for the previous owners, so they donated them to charity, gave them away, or sold them non-working and cheap. I would like to provide a fourth optiom for folks who want to keep their clocks, but can't spare $500.

I struggle with two things there. The first, and least worrisome, is that I know there will be those that COULD easily afford $90/hr would take advantage. To be honest, I don't care; nasty selfish people have to live with themselves, and I'll still be able to sleep well at night. The second is the concern that my approach would harm the livelihood of other clock repair people, and/or alienate me from the clock repair "community." THAT is a great concern...I don't wish for either

I guess we all have to decide whether we are artists, sharing the love of our art and accepting/trusting that those who appreciate us will compensate us willingly, or we are businessmen/women, setting the rate we desire and ensuring that customers must pay that rate. Again...it's a continuum... where one falls in that spectrum is a personal choice.

Thanks for reading. Pardon the Magnus Opus. Obviously, I wrestle with this stuff a lot! Please.... no offense is meant by any of this, and trust that I DO value and appreciate the skills and expertise of many of you.
 
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R. Croswell

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May I ask about reasonable rates for hobbyists? It sure is different because there are not shop utility costs (working from home) and no schedule. I would think a hobbyist is the same, if not being able to make, quality repairs as a shop would.
The most important thing for one starting out as a hobbyist who feels that he/she is "ready" to begin repairing clocks for others is to concentrate on doing quality work and build your reputation. After you do a hundred clocks there will still be more that you don't know than you do know, and you really won't know if the repairs you make today are pro quality for 5 or 10 years. Rank beginners should probably only charge for parts and focus on fixing clocks for family and friends. Consider it a learning experience and accept what ever gratuity may be forth coming. Once you are confidant that you can repair a clock as well and anyone else, and that may mean limiting the types of clocks that you will accept to those like or similar to others you have done for yourself, then you should be entitled to the same rewards as anyone else "in the business". If you charge too little you will be inundated with junk clocks that people pick up at flea markets and yard sales for $15 dollars and expect you to fix it about the same money. That's when it is no longer fun and becomes a chore. On the other hand, if you charge a substantial rate to fix a clock and the repair fails and you have to pay someone else to fix it under your warranty, you can quickly find yourself in a bad situation. And yes, if you charge standard rates you really do need to offer a warranty and be prepared to standby it.

I face some of the same issues. I'm retired from a couple other professions and work part-time from home. Some people just want their clock fixed right and don't even ask what it will cost. I frequently get clocks that someone else has hacked up and they expect to pay at least the rate the other shops charge. And then there are those who expect to pay less because I don't have a big downtown store front. Now when I get so busy with clock repair work that I have to pay others to fix my car or cut the grass, if I don't charge a decent rate it is hardly worth it. These recent discussions are causing me to rethink some of my own rates.

When I was a teenager I repaired radios for people. I had a corner in my bedroom setup as a radio repair shop. I loved doing it and learning at the same time. I picked up and delivered radios in a basket on my bicycle (didn't have a car and too young to drive). I became the one that almost everyone in our town of about 300 came to when their radio didn't work. I charged a whole lot less than the big shop in the next town and did better work. In the 1950s a dollar was a lot of money for a kid so if I made three or four bucks I was happy. But I was NOT planning to open a radio and TV shop after getting out of school. I was just having fun, helping people get their radios working again, and learning as much as I could about electronics. The day after graduating from high school I went to work for an established electronics manufacturing company.

I guess I'm saying that it really depends on where you plan to go with your clock repairing. Is it going to be a hobby that you enjoy and not depend on to make a living, or do you one day hope to build a hobby into a business that provides a living income in a highly specialized competitive market place.

RC
 

MuseChaser

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RC, would you please confine your intelligent, informative posts to specifics on clock repair? ;)

Just kidding, of course. Excellent post, and great thoughts.
 

glenhead

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A bit about myself before I answer your question.

I've been doing this as a side business for about twelve years. Even once I retire in another 226 work days/409 calendar days/1808 work hours (not that I'm counting, and assuming I don't get completely fed up and hang up my spurs before then), I'll work on watches and clocks because I love it, not because I'm trying to make a living at it. What money I make at it is icing on the cake. Getting paid for what is essentially a hobby? Heck yeah. The fact that I make other people smile by fixing their timepieces is the cherry on top. (Not to mix food metaphors or anything...)

I take a huge amount of pride in the near-obsessive quality of my work. There are tons of other people out there who can do equivalent work, but nobody can do better work on a movement unless highly-specialized parts repair is required, like cutting a leaf pinion or something. I don't have much experience with case restoration and near-zero experience with dial refinishing. Those will be fun things to learn after retirement. Unless a timepiece is a) extremely low quality or b) in terrible not-fully-repairable condition, all my work comes with a two-year warranty. And yes, it frequently takes me flippin' forEVer to get a job done because of the amount of real repair required. I do a lot of repairs that others turn away. Doing both watches and clocks means that I do quite a few balance-wheel clocks, too. In twelve years and over four hundred jobs I've had to give up on fewer than ten timepieces.

My basic rates are pretty simple. A time-only clock is $120 plus parts, two-trains are $150 plus, three-trains are $200 plus, multi-tune-three-trains or other complications are more, cuckoos somewhere in there. Alarm clocks or electrics usually fall somewhere below that range. Quartz movement swaps are usually a bit above the cost of the movement (including shipping) plus about $20. If parts are needed I make a bit of profit on them if I can buy them. Most times I make the parts and dream up a cost for them (usually wa-a-a-ay too low). If there is case work needed or whatever (besides the movement) there is an additional charge. Any parts or extra expense is discussed with and approved by the customer ahead of time. I always promise there will be no nasty dollar-based surprises at the end. Many times I've ended up making way less than $2 per hour because of troubleshooting and making parts. I choose to ignore that fact - it's MY time. Finding the "ah-HAH! [foul language redacted]" solution to a vexing repair is delicious.

All of my rates are wildly negotiable. If someone hears my usual rate and wilts, we talk about it. I've done several repairs for free. I get such joy out of making other people happy that it's pretty easy to negotiate my rates. Add to that the fact that I get to fix things and make things to bring a mechanical system back to full operational status, and the fact that I'm always learning new techniques and buying or making new tools - Glen is a happy boy.

As I said, I am incredibly lucky to be able to do this as a side business. If my wife and I had to depend on my business acumen for a living we'd be sunk. :)

Hope this helps.

Glen
 

Salsagev

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This was just a thought I had.

It’s a really good point that you say the price would deter junk.
I guess I'm saying that it really depends on where you plan to go with your clock repairing. Is it going to be a hobby that you enjoy and not depend on to make a living, or do you one day hope to build a hobby into a business that provides a living income in a highly specialized competitive market place.

RC
concentrate on doing quality work and build your reputation.
You are right, I would like to do quality repairs because otherwise you won’t be contributing to horology at all. I am only at the point where I fix clocks and work it into the selling price (to recoup the costs). I never really plan to do any service work out for the public. I do plan, however, is to contribute to horology by collecting and gathering information from my clocks. Fixing clocks is one thing but actually putting a story or purpose on it is far more important, IMO. Ask questions like “Why did this manufacturer choose to do this?” Or “How why is this feature important?”. To me, that is important; to know about the clock. I commonly know of people say that they repaired this or that super rare clock but never documented any of it.

As for a warranty (POV of selling the clock), if I see this cheap clock for 60 dollars, a warranty is not doing anything good both ways or not worth it. I would like the clock to move on to the next person to enjoy and not “drag” around (choosing your customers as well). As for repairing, I think a warranty is decent and you are being responsible for mistakes. Just maybe have a proof that this or that was not broken after you gave it back? Minor adjustments should be included for no charge after service?


I struggle with two things there. The first, and least worrisome, is that I know there will be those that COULD easily afford $90/hr would take advantage. To be honest, I don't care; nasty selfish people have to live with themselves, and I'll still be able to sleep well at night. The second is the concern that my approach would harm the livelihood of other clock repair people, and/or alienate me from the clock repair "community." THAT is a great concern...I don't wish for either
Are you referring to non quality repairs for expensive?
 

Salsagev

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I'll work on watches and clocks because I love it, not because I'm trying to make a living at it. What money I make at it is icing on the cake. Getting paid for what is essentially a hobby? Heck yeah. The fact that I make other people smile by fixing their timepieces is the cherry on top. (Not to mix food metaphors or anything...)
I agree!
My basic rates are pretty simple. A time-only clock is $120 plus parts, two-trains are $150 plus, three-trains are $200 plus, multi-tune-three-trains or other complications are more, cuckoos somewhere in there. Alarm clocks or electrics usually fall somewhere below that range. Quartz movement swaps are usually a bit above the cost of the movement (including shipping) plus about $20. If parts are needed I make a bit of profit on them if I can buy them. Most times I make the parts and dream up a cost for them (usually wa-a-a-ay too low). If there is case work needed or whatever (besides the movement) there is an additional charge. Any parts or extra expense is discussed with and approved by the customer ahead of time. I always promise there will be no nasty dollar-based surprises at the end. Many times I've ended up making way less than $2 per hour because of troubleshooting and making parts. I choose to ignore that fact - it's MY time. Finding the "ah-HAH! [foul language redacted]" solution to a vexing repair is delicious.
Charging what is necessary is very important as I can tell. My least favorite thing I see is when repair rates are inflated because they are being worked on by this or that shop.
All of my rates are wildly negotiable. If someone hears my usual rate and wilts, we talk about it. I've done several repairs for free. I get such joy out of making other people happy that it's pretty easy to negotiate my rates. Add to that the fact that I get to fix things and make things to bring a mechanical system back to full operational status, and the fact that I'm always learning new techniques and buying or making new tools - Glen is a happy boy.
That is great! This is a great way to deal with “Karens” who complain at the slightest thing. If somebody has something they want to improve, they can kindly discuss with you how to make it happen! Another thing that everyone should be open to improvement. This is what I do when buying stuff on marketplace: I will kindly notify somebody that their listing has something incorrect or (what is see is) a mistake - Such as somebody had a listing where they were selling a Vienna regulator for a certain price, but there was a grave mistake that could hit hard. They set it for “9 dollar” shipping. This was on FB marketplace. Listed an hour ago (at the time). I kindly notified them and they gladly changed it. They admitted that they didn’t know about that. Just saved them hundreds dollars loss.
 

MuseChaser

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......
Are you referring to non quality repairs for expensive?
I'm not sure what you're asking me. The part of my epic that you quoted was in regards to harming the livelihood of other clock repair folks or alienating myself from other clock folks. I'll take a stab at answering your question, but let me know if I missed your intent.

I would never do a "non-quality" repair, but what I WOULD do is what I prefer to have auto shops do; tell the customer, "Item A needs to be done now for the (clock/car) to run and be safe, Item B should be done soon and would be cheaper to do now, and Item C can be done if you really want to keep this for a long time." In my mind, doing only item A is not a "non-quality" repair, but I think that differs from the philosophies/thoughts of at least several learned people on this forum. It is simply deferring maintenance, which is an accepted practice where safety is not an issue. Case in point... A friend recently brought her late 1890s New Haven gingerbread clock to me that a friend had just given her. The movement was intact, but the pendulum (one of those that had a center cylinder and side clear tubes..) was in pieces. I assembled the pendulum, put it in beat, and it ran and struck correctly, but the strike train was really loud and incredibly fast. I told her it should really be gone through thoroughly, and that it would probably take me about ten hours give or take, but she could just take it now and enjoy it until it stopped. She chose to take it, and no money changed hands. That was fine. It's still running. I'm guessing that there are several shops that would have looked at the clock, quoted at least several hundred dollars, and said take it or leave it. I know one that did.

Also, i would not do anything I wasn't confident I could do very well and would never to hesitate to recommend a more experienced shop to a customer (should I ever have one).

Since, as Glenhead said above, my time is also mine and I do this for the joy of it, I would have no problem doing the work for far less than $90/hour, or whatever the customer could pay as long as long as all of my parts and supply expenses were always covered. I can see how that may bother a local full-time shop... especially one that does not always do great work.
 
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Salsagev

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You meant the customer were selfish.


I would never do a "non-quality" repair, but what I WOULD do is what I prefer to have auto shops do; tell the customer, "Item A needs to be done now for the (clock/car) to run and be safe, Item B should be done soon and would be cheaper to do now, and Item C can be done if you really want to keep this for a long time." In my mind, doing only item A is not a "non-quality" repair, but I think that differs from the philosophies/thoughts of at least several learned people on this forum. It is simply deferring maintenance, which is an accepted practice where safety is not an issue. Case in point... A friend recently brought her late 1890s New Haven gingerbread clock to me that a friend had just given her. The movement was intact, but the pendulum (one of those that had a center cylinder and side clear tubes..) was in pieces. I assembled the pendulum, put it in beat, and it ran and struck correctly, but the strike train was really loud and incredibly fast. I told her it should really be gone through thoroughly, and that it would probably take me about ten hours give or take, but she could just take it now and enjoy it until it stopped. She chose to take it, and no money changed hands. That was fine. It's still running. I'm guessing that there are several shops that would have looked at the clock, quoted at least several hundred dollars, and said take it or leave it. I know one that did.
As long as that the entire procedure of what your charging to do is clearly stated, I think this is a good rule and integrally sound.
You didn’t charge for just the pendulum repair?

Some would say to get your clock running for 70 bucks but all is done is 5 dollars work.
Also, i would not do anything I wasn't confident I could do very well and would never to hesitate to recommend a more experienced shop to a customer (should I ever have one).
Sound great as well!

Also (for everyone), how would/do you handle a buffoon who wastes time?
 

Willie X

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Well, clock repair has been steadily declining for years. So, unless you have an area that can give you a steady demand for your services, might as well think about something else.

Alternatives are few, like buying out an existing shop in a high population area, or moving to a high population area. If the population is skewed to old folks, that's all the better. At least 200,000 population and one good clock repair person is about right. If a second good repair person moves in ... your screwed. Willie X
 

Kevin W.

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Thanks Shutt, thought better to ask first.
 

davefr

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Well, clock repair has been steadily declining for years. So, unless you have an area that can give you a steady demand for your services, might as well think about something else.

Alternatives are few, like buying out an existing shop in a high population area, or moving to a high population area. If the population is skewed to old folks, that's all the better. At least 200,000 population and one good clock repair person is about right. If a second good repair person moves in ... your screwed. Willie X
Really? The guys I know seem to have more business then they can handle. Long wait times, reservation systems so they don't get buried, frequently turning down new work, etc.

I think the key is marketing your services on the internet and doing mail in vs. walk in when feasible. (less overhead) I also think that guys that refuse to do electric are missing a huge opportunity. That's where a big chunk of the volume is IMHO.
 
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shutterbug

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I think most of us older guys work part time, as much for something to do as to make money. But money buys toys, so it ain't a bad thing :)
For me, I expect to turn down a few requests. If my fees are too high, they are welcome to seek elsewhere. Mechanics get paid pretty well, and I'm a clock mechanic. Where I live, there are broken cars littering the countryside. Most make it to the scrap yard eventually.
Old clocks, like old cars, are abandoned by those unwilling to pay to keep them working. Many end up in museums, thankfully. But many are consigned to the land fill. Sad fact, but true.
 

davefr

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Electric ... volume?? Maybe we are on different planets? :)
Willie X
Here on my planet, Telechron produced 10's (maybe 100's) of millions of clocks during their 80 year run. Add to that, the electrics from Seth Thomas, Jefferson, Hammond, etc, etc, etc. There's a huge base of these in need of service. (driven by "deep pocket" sentimental attachment and that many were some of the coolest designs ever in horology).

Meanwhile the few guys that work on these are either limiting incoming work or quoting lead times measured in months. Hardly a day goes by that someone doesn't ask me where they can send their electric clock in for repair/service.

To me, I see a nice niche business for more guys willing to tackle electric. Low overhead (work from home), do all your marketing online and mail in service is usually feasible.

My $.02 worth.
 
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MuseChaser

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Re/ "marketing online."... at least in our area, Craigslist seems to be falling out of favor and more and more folks are using FarceBook Marketplace. As a conscientious FarceBook objector/abstainer, does anyone have any other suggestions for letting a small local market know of one's willingness to help out with needed clock repairs on a small, part-time, hobbyist basis?
 
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davefr

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^^ You might want to get added to the NAWCC Business Directory. I refer clients there when they're searching for local service. You could also inform your local NAWCC Chapter that you're open for business. If your willing to do mail in work, there's always Ebay and Etsy. You could also set up a table at local collector/antique market to get some exposure.
 

shutterbug

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I now live in a small town. I have a banner hanging in the local bowling alley, and pass out business cards where ever I can. Antique shops, laundry mats, anywhere you see a bulletin board for the purpose.
 

MuseChaser

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I now live in a small town. I have a banner hanging in the local bowling alley, and pass out business cards where ever I can. Antique shops, laundry mats, anywhere you see a bulletin board for the purpose.
I like that very much... harkens back to a day when we actually related to other human beings rather than cyber-based representations of lifeforms. Thanks!
 

POWERSTROKE

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Do you folks have your business name registered in your State? What paperwork and filing have you done? I have a large finished basement I work out of and wondering.
 
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shutterbug

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Most States only require a sales tax permit (either quarterly or yearly filing) and the bank might require the business to be registered before they'll accept checks in the business name. Insurance is an option but not usually a requirement. Sales tax collection on services, including labor, are mandated in most States.
 
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POWERSTROKE

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So how do you go about actually doing this? Do you use a program for taxes and money made etc? I live in NH, I need to file a trade name. But also, we don’t have a sales tax here, or income tax. What do I do federally ?? Never had a business. Taxes and ss?
 
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shutterbug

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Go on line to get a tax permit for your State. Then go to the bank to discuss attaching your business name to your checking account or opening a separate account for the business. You will get a bunch of papers along with the tax permit that explain what you need to do. If you are buying clocks to repair and resell, present the tax ID and you won't be charged for sales tax on the purchase.
Don't get caught misusing it! :oops:
 
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R. Croswell

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So how do you go about actually doing this? Do you use a program for taxes and money made etc? I live in NH, I need to file a trade name. But also, we don’t have a sales tax here, or income tax. What do I do federally ?? Never had a business. Taxes and ss?
Laws differ from state to state. You might inquire at your local city hall. I would expect that someone there could tell you what you need to do. Zoning laws differ from place to place but you may need a home occupation permit, which usually has limits what you can do in a residential area. There are usually restrictions on signs and a permit is usually required if a sign is allowed at all. At the federal level, if you have income from a business you will need to file a Federal Tax form for profit and loss from business with your federal tax return. You will also have to pay federal self employment tax. As for at what point a "hobby" becomes a "business" and is required to regulated as a business, you should probably ask a local attorney or someone who knows the laws and codes in your area.

RC
 
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davefr

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I would also recommend setting up your business as an LLC. (limited liability company). You can do this as a sole proprietor. The big advantage is that it insulates you personally from the liabilities your company may face. It's cheap and easy to set up. Do a google search to read more about LLC's.
 
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MuseChaser

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I could be wrong about this, but as I understand it, the differences between "hobby" and "business" are....

1. Is there a profit motive? In other words, is the purpose of the endeavor to make money, or is profit an occasional by-product of something you do for enjoyment? Generally, if you advertise, use a name other than your own, set up a specific DBA account, or otherwise "hold out" to secure customers, it can be considered a business rather than a hobby.

2. When filing federal (and state depending upon your state) income taxes, you are required to list income either way...business or hobby. The differences are that you do not need to pay self-employment tax on a hobby, but you can't deduct expenses nor show a loss on a hobby. Generally, while additional paperwork and bookkeeping are never enjoyable, it works out better to go through the steps to file the Schedule C, as long as you show profit most years. If you show a loss for two consecutive years, the IRS may question the business status and classify it as hobby income, disallowing thr deductions, and collecting penalties.

Something like that.
 
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Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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Where I live, most small businesses are set up as LLCs, yes you will need a state sales tax number, federal ID number, business license, etc. Lots of hoops to jump through.

I would talk to someone who has recently done a small business start up. A tax CPA would also be a good source of info, that's pretty much all they do.

In short, it's a big hassel but there are a lot of really nice perks, tax deductions, simple IRAs, building depreciation, tools, transportation, county taxes, insurance, etc. They all come off your gross income. Don't go on a crazy spending spree though, you HAVE to show a profit in 3 of the 5 past years to keep your business status.

Every year, starting about 8 years ago, I have to fill out, sign and have notarized a statement that says I'm a legal citizen of the US. Like that's going to change from one year to the next??

In short, if you are making lots of money, or plan on making lots of money, it a good thing to have a business. Not making that much money, probably not.

Good luck, Willie X
 
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